Jump to content


Photo

403B Rollover To Trf Indiana


  • Please log in to reply
13 replies to this topic

#1 gobipuba

gobipuba
  • Members
  • 25 posts

Posted 26 March 2012 - 05:07 PM

I am trying to rollover an orphaned Vanguard account to my trf in Indiana. TRF wants a letter from the plan sponsor or admin that states the account is taxable funds from an eligible plan. Vanguard is saying they cannot provide this info that the plan is taxable because they are not the plan admin. I can no longer add funds to this account because of the new regs and our plan being with valic. I assume Valic is the TPA. What to do?

#2 kat92128

kat92128
  • Members
  • 80 posts

Posted 26 March 2012 - 05:25 PM

I'm not exactly sure what TRF stands for, but I, too, have an "orphaned" 403b account with Vanguard. Like you, I could not contribute to it OR roll it into anything else after the regulations changed. I opened it and contributed to it when Vanguard was listed as an approved vendor. That all changed with the regulations when Big Brother took over and we seemed to go back to the dark ages of more regulations and insurance company rip-offs with fees. Luckily I have an option of CALSTRS here in California, which is excellent, but I can no longer invest directly with Vanguard or Fidelity. My only option was to open another 403b account, which I did.

Unless I am misunderstanding your question, I don't think there is anything you can do with it. I know mine is stuck in Vanguard until I am 59 1/2. But that's not a bad place to be.

#3 gobipuba

gobipuba
  • Members
  • 25 posts

Posted 26 March 2012 - 06:19 PM

Kat,

Thanks for your reply. TRF is Teachers retirement fund of Indiana. You might be right about being there until I am eligible for distributions. I have gone back and forth about keeping it at vanguard, as I like them, but was going to try to consolidate my trf and orphaned 403b the whole thing is frustrating. Lets say Valic is my plan administrator now. They could move my 403b to valic couldn't they? I remember them saying you could roll over these accounts to valic if you wanted to

#4 kat92128

kat92128
  • Members
  • 80 posts

Posted 27 March 2012 - 10:27 AM

Perhaps they could...but not in a million lifetimes would I have anything to do with Valic, which is a high-fee, surrender charged insurance company owned by AIG! It took me years to roll my 403b OUT of Valic and it cost a bundle. If Valic was my only choice for 403b, I'd be maximizing a Traditional or Roth IRA on my own, and not utilizing the 403b.

Please, please do some more research before you have anything to do with Valic. I don't know how to say it much more forcefully without using really bad language!

By the way, I'm very happy to leave my orphaned 403b with Vanguard. It's growing nicely and has super-low fees.

#5 tony

tony
  • Members
  • 2,497 posts

Posted 27 March 2012 - 03:36 PM

I am in the same boat but being stuck in a vanguard fund is a great place to be stuck. Everybody should be so lucky.

#6 sschullo

sschullo
  • Members
  • 3,553 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 27 March 2012 - 04:44 PM

Just adding on what Kat and Tony have eloquently said, stick with Vanguard and avoid any large insurance company 403b.

#7 gobipuba

gobipuba
  • Members
  • 25 posts

Posted 28 March 2012 - 08:30 AM

I will probably leave the money in Vanguard.

The problem is that eventually I will have to open up an account with Valic, as my school has a sev plan at retirement where money is placed in your 403b account. this has to be valic or ing, eithor profile retirement or annuity contracts. No way i am opening up an annuity. I thought if i could roll the money into the trf account I could simplify things a bit, then open up the 403 with valic at the end of my career. Presently I fund roths for my wife and myself. Interesting, for those of you interested in lowering your taxable income, but not having a good 403b plan, we have been contributing to my wife's health savings account.

I still am very interested in this issue of rolling over the money to trf, and whether I will have to deal with valic if they our plan admin. Made a call to the school district yesterday, and will let you know what happens.

#8 sschullo

sschullo
  • Members
  • 3,553 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 28 March 2012 - 10:54 AM

I will probably leave the money in Vanguard.

The problem is that eventually I will have to open up an account with Valic, as my school has a sev plan at retirement where money is placed in your 403b account. this has to be valic or ing, eithor profile retirement or annuity contracts. No way i am opening up an annuity. I thought if i could roll the money into the trf account I could simplify things a bit, then open up the 403 with valic at the end of my career. Presently I fund roths for my wife and myself. Interesting, for those of you interested in lowering your taxable income, but not having a good 403b plan, we have been contributing to my wife's health savings account.

I still am very interested in this issue of rolling over the money to trf, and whether I will have to deal with valic if they our plan admin. Made a call to the school district yesterday, and will let you know what happens.

Hi gobi,
Need to spell out acronyms. What is "sev?"
We understand that Vanguard is not available for future 403b contributions. And I agree to look into the Valic plan, see what is available and to begin 403b contributions to them as long as the fees are low. But I don't understand is why you want to transfer your money from Vanguard to TRF. There must be something you see that I don't. Its perfectly fine to leave this money in Vanguard. What is the possible benefit from this besides to make it simple?
Does your district provide a match?
Contributing to a health savings account is a good thing, but it should not be used just to lower taxable income.
Have a great day,
Steve

#9 gobipuba

gobipuba
  • Members
  • 25 posts

Posted 28 March 2012 - 12:41 PM

Steve,

Sev is our old severance plan for teachers retirement from the district. A percentage of that money is placed in the teacher's 403b. That is why I will eventually have to open an account with valic. there is no match with our employer

I agree with you about the Vanguard account. I am very glad that the money is orphaned there and not somewhere else. The Indiana trf has very low fees as well. If the money was at TRF I could roll that account into my final pension payment. I thought at a certain level that might be more simple in the long run than managing a separate account for the next 20 years. Sometimes simplicity is a good thing, as long as you are meeting your goals using low fee customer based companies and plans. There really is no advantage in me keeping my money at Vanguard over and above my TRF account. Vanguard has more funds to offer, that is true, but both my money at trf and Vanguard are invested in low fee target based funds. I am not even thinking of moving that money to a high priced annuity

My point about the HSA is this. If you are in my position where you do not like the vendors your plan offers for your 403b, and you choose to fund the roths instead, contributing to the HSA is another way you can lower your taxable income. presnet taxes get to be a bigger issue as you make more money and lose some of your credits. We use the account for medical and dental, and therefore I don't lament the loss of 403b as much. That was my only point on the hsa

#10 sschullo

sschullo
  • Members
  • 3,553 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 28 March 2012 - 04:33 PM

Steve,

Sev is our old severance plan for teachers retirement from the district. A percentage of that money is placed in the teacher's 403b. That is why I will eventually have to open an account with valic. there is no match with our employer

I agree with you about the Vanguard account. I am very glad that the money is orphaned there and not somewhere else. The Indiana trf has very low fees as well. If the money was at TRF I could roll that account into my final pension payment. I thought at a certain level that might be more simple in the long run than managing a separate account for the next 20 years. Sometimes simplicity is a good thing, as long as you are meeting your goals using low fee customer based companies and plans. There really is no advantage in me keeping my money at Vanguard over and above my TRF account. Vanguard has more funds to offer, that is true, but both my money at trf and Vanguard are invested in low fee target based funds. I am not even thinking of moving that money to a high priced annuity

My point about the HSA is this. If you are in my position where you do not like the vendors your plan offers for your 403b, and you choose to fund the roths instead, contributing to the HSA is another way you can lower your taxable income. presnet taxes get to be a bigger issue as you make more money and lose some of your credits. We use the account for medical and dental, and therefore I don't lament the loss of 403b as much. That was my only point on the hsa


And it is a sad state of affairs when employees have to resort to an HSA to offset the fees of bad 403b high priced products. Policy makers are simply blind to what we have to do to make do with a terrible 403b. Been that way for a half century.

#11 gobipuba

gobipuba
  • Members
  • 25 posts

Posted 28 March 2012 - 04:49 PM

I wholeheartedly agree with you. It is really unbelievable how many educators blindly put their money in high priced annuity contracts year after year. those of us that seek low priced options are a total minority. I would guess that 90% of my colleagues continue to purchase annuity based products even when they have the option of the profile retire plan, which I am not a part of either. They just do not think about fees, because it is hidden in the account. The new regs have empowered valic and the others even more. When the new regs came in the vast majority of teachers were with valic annuities. They come in and say they will administrate the plan for the school district. I have really sort of given up the fight. I will invest in the roths to the max. I will lower our taxable income with the hsa as much as possible. There really is no other option, other than to publicly continue to highlight wnat valic and ing do to teachers with these accounts. My experience is they hate when enlightened teachers ask them questions.

#12 tony

tony
  • Members
  • 2,497 posts

Posted 28 March 2012 - 05:13 PM

Didn't Valic introduce a lower cost option a while back outside of annuities?

#13 gobipuba

gobipuba
  • Members
  • 25 posts

Posted 28 March 2012 - 05:53 PM

Yes, called their profile retirement fund, marketed as a do it yourself plan with lower cost funds outside annuities. It is better as far as I can tell but not as good as Vanguard or fidelity.

#14 tony

tony
  • Members
  • 2,497 posts

Posted 29 March 2012 - 06:29 PM

ran into this on bogleheads forum cocwening valic. Valic is our districts largest provider I have been told but i have checked to see if thats true.


http://www.boglehead...newpost=1349887