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403bannuitysalesman

School District District Got Rid of Vanguard Slot for Individaul Annuity Product

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On 9/8/2018 at 9:26 AM, 403bannuitysalesman said:

I want companies to allow us to sell products that they would sell their families.  I want to be able to sell products I feel good about selling and not rip people off.  That is what I want.

What I meant by my question, is what do you want FROM US HERE?

Now that you mentioned that you want something from the very same companies that provide you will lucrative commissions and a very good living, what are you doing about it? Have you talked, written letters or petitioned those companies to stop selling hideous annuities with rip off surrender fees, and pathetic returns that will never keep up with the inflation rate? If you did, what did they say? 

 

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40 minutes ago, sschullo said:

What I meant by my question, is what do you want FROM US HERE?

Now that you mentioned that you want something from the very same companies that provide you will lucrative commissions and a very good living, what are you doing about it?

The only moral and ethical thing for @403bannuitysalesman to do is to find a new career that doesn't involve taking advantage of people. Anything less than that is a justification for their indefensible actions.

They'll answer for themselves, but I suspect what they want from us is one of two things:

  1. They're a shark that embraces the immorality of their actions and therefore they enjoy messing with us.
  2. They're troubled by the immorality of their actions, but rather than stopping, they're seeking a rationalization, justification, or penance for their behavior by writing posts that condemn the very practices they willingly continue to engage in.

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1 hour ago, EdLaFave said:

The only moral and ethical thing for @403bannuitysalesman to do is to find a new career that doesn't involve taking advantage of people. Anything less than that is a justification for their indefensible actions.

They'll answer for themselves, but I suspect what they want from us is one of two things:

  1. They're a shark that embraces the immorality of their actions and therefore they enjoy messing with us.
  2. They're troubled by the immorality of their actions, but rather than stopping, they're seeking a rationalization, justification, or penance for their behavior by writing posts that condemn the very practices they willingly continue to engage in.

That's what I want to find out, but if @403bannuitysalesman, is like others, they are very clever and they are experts at evading questions, just as the recent supreme court nominee did with answering questions. Of course, he will deny he is a troll, but he is, because I believe what you believe, he has no intention of ever changing. Otherwise, he would have posted it, but all he does is complain about the very products he sells teachers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Because if he really did change he would have come here and told his story, as a few others have done over the years. But as I said before, its been over a decade since an annuity salesperson posted on these boards. I say good riddance. They offered NOTHING!!!!!!!!!! NOTHING when they were posting. 

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Sorry to step in at this point in the thread but I want to offer my experience.

During the restructuring days of 403b programs my district lost Fidelity, the only low cost provider offered to us.  I repeatedly asked why,  why not, etc.  Not many good answers were provided.  I knew and liked the district person responsible for payroll and this program but I had to keep pushing. I called Fidelity and our TPA and supposedly it had something to do with an agreement that the TPA wanted Fidelity to agree to.  One day during a call payroll said, "Ok, you can have Fidelity."  Just like that.  This always perplexed me.

So when I hear that people are told they can't use a low cost provider I think about this strange situation that I experienced.

And as mentioned earlier, it is a shame so many people feel they don't have the knowledge or ability to invest in their 403b.

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2 hours ago, TGO said:

 

Sorry to step in at this point in the thread but I want to offer my experience.

During the restructuring days of 403b programs my district lost Fidelity, the only low cost provider offered to us.  I repeatedly asked why,  why not, etc.  Not many good answers were provided.  I knew and liked the district person responsible for payroll and this program but I had to keep pushing. I called Fidelity and our TPA and supposedly it had something to do with an agreement that the TPA wanted Fidelity to agree to.  One day during a call payroll said, "Ok, you can have Fidelity."  Just like that.  This always perplexed me.

So when I hear that people are told they can't use a low cost provider I think about this strange situation that I experienced.

And as mentioned earlier, it is a shame so many people feel they don't have the knowledge or ability to invest in their 403b.

I have a couple of chapters in my book Fighting Powerful Interests (free download on my blog) devoted to the ABSOLUTE BIZARRE behavior of payroll, benefits, union leaders, and legal school district staff to my simple questions! IT IS OUR MONEY, none is from the taxpayers. Wow! 

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3 hours ago, TGO said:

 

And as mentioned earlier, it is a shame so many people feel they don't have the knowledge or ability to invest in their 403b.

 

TGO glad you joined us.. the more the merrier here.Never too late to comment. Your statement (quote above)  exemplifies just one of the problems with the 403b. Certainly, though, folks are not getting the help or transparency they deserve from others to become more knowledgeable as Steve mentions. Teachers are taught to teach but no one is teaching the teachers!! Also, my cynical self is convinced that there might be a deliberate exclusion of the lower cost plans for some less than honorable reason .

 

 Thanks for commenting.

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9 minutes ago, tony said:

Also, my cynical self is convinced that there might be a deliberate exclusion of the lower cost plans for some less than honorable reason .

I think this line of thinking usually leads to the truth. I think it is at least partially true in some cases throughout our nation's school districts.

However, I really believe ignorance and neglect are the primary reasons school districts often fail to add lower cost plans. For the school districts who have low cost plans and fail to remove high cost plans after being pushed to do so and being given the explanation for why it is best...well then I start to question motives more strongly.

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I don't disagree with you Ed, but I've talked to some advisors over the years and they spit venom when Vanguard is mentioned. I had one advisor tell me Vanguard should not be allowed on any provider list because they don't give adequate advisor support to teachers and what was this same  guy selling? Shockingly expensive managed funds and services to the tune of 3% a year. I know for fact the advisors have told supervisors and central office personnel that teachers need hand holding and Vanguard offers none. I can see this being used as a reason they might be dropped off lists. Of course we know that a properly educated teacher can probably handle his /her own 403b. The statement can also be used disingenuously to sway decision makers and teachers to high fee annuities because salespeople-advisors are always available to "help".The early bird often gets the worm and these guys are on commission so they charge ahead with their marketing and self-promotions.  Vanguard and Fidelity will always be at a disadvantage as long as we have those stinkers out there misrepresenting the facts and pushing their sub-par products.

 I think first-tier plans like Fidelity, Vanguard, and some of the better slightly second tier plans like Direct Invest, Aspire, and Lincoln are suffering from benign neglect and lack of attention while the insurance companies are sending out an aggressive salesforce  which is getting all the attention. I will not, however, discount the feeling that maybe something less than honorable might be going on in some instances as well.

I think there is some merit in the argument that teachers need help setting up a 403b plan so the better choices have a dilemma as there is no support.... unless they come here of course. But , you know what kind of traffic we get here.... its usually a few of us talking to ourselves and preaching to the choir. I say this knowing that every school district is different and some get it and some don't. And not all school districts are blessed with advocates that can get things changed.

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I tell teachers while sitting down with them the differences between the self-directed accounts and the 403b-1 annuity or advisor 403b-7 accounts.  If they have a self-directed account at the school, I inform them of the advantages of this.  I also explain they can invest outside the district in an IRA through a self-directed account if they choose.  But I tell them I cannot assist them as my company does not offer this. Many times then, the teacher  does nothing as they want someone to set it up for them.

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11 hours ago, 403bannuitysalesman said:

I tell teachers while sitting down with them the differences between the self-directed accounts and the 403b-1 annuity or advisor 403b-7 accounts.  If they have a self-directed account at the school, I inform them of the advantages of this.  I also explain they can invest outside the district in an IRA through a self-directed account if they choose.  But I tell them I cannot assist them as my company does not offer this. Many times then, the teacher  does nothing as they want someone to set it up for them.

We all know this.

Of course, you cannot assist them because to do so you would be looking out for the teachers' best interests. You and your company have deliberately taken advantage of the fiduciary loophole to the teaching profession to make money for your selves since the 1960s. Teachers are not employed to be job creators, yet that is what our entire profession does for you and the insurance industry. Think about this, a 22-year teacher signs a contract for a fixed annuity, you walk away with a nice commission, and that young teacher is straddled with high costs and his or her money never keeping up with inflation. As I have repeated, no fiduciary financial adviser would ever recommend a fixed or variable annuity to any client. Yet that is exactly what is sold every day to our colleagues. 

It has been my experience, that the only large insurance company that DOES look out for the teachers' interest is TIAA.  

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7 hours ago, 403bannuitysalesman said:

I tell teachers while sitting down with them the differences between the self-directed accounts and the 403b-1 annuity or advisor 403b-7 accounts.  If they have a self-directed account at the school, I inform them of the advantages of this.  I also explain they can invest outside the district in an IRA through a self-directed account if they choose.  But I tell them I cannot assist them as my company does not offer this. Many times then, the teacher  does nothing as they want someone to set it up for them.

The salesmen  I’ve talked to recently often say the self direct plans are great but then add,”...if you want to do it all by yourself.”  My question is, after the salesmen sign teachers up for these plans, what else do they do for the teacher?  

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3 hours ago, jebjebitz said:

The salesmen  I’ve talked to recently often say the self direct plans are great but then add,”...if you want to do it all by yourself.”  My question is, after the salesmen sign teachers up for these plans, what else do they do for the teacher?  

`In my younger years, I worked with up to four different so-called advisors. They would put me in an expensive set of annuity based mutual funds and then two of them I never saw again. The other two would stop by when they happened to be in the building to ask if I wanted to increase my contributions. One actually wanted a $200.00 check from me to rebalance my portfolio according to some computer model. These guys live by commision. They don't advise, they sell. Financial Advisor is often a misnomer, most are  salesmen. No different than a car salesman. Not experts by any means.

 

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5 hours ago, tony said:

`In my younger years, I worked with up to four different so-called advisors. They would put me in an expensive set of annuity based mutual funds and then two of them I never saw again. The other two would stop by when they happened to be in the building to ask if I wanted to increase my contributions. One actually wanted a $200.00 check from me to rebalance my portfolio according to some computer model. These guys live by commision. They don't advise, they sell. Financial Advisor is often a misnomer, most are  salesmen. No different than a car salesman. Not experts by any means.

 

I have a hard time telling people this.  I feel like most teachers think that these guys will help them somehow if there’s a market crash?  Or, maybe they believe these guys are carefully watching their investments and they’ll swoop in and help them change their investments so they’ll avoid a loss.  Like you said, after signing up you never see these guys again.  In my case, when I finally had questions about my AXA account it was a different guy then the one who set up my account.  My friend has an account with Valic and there have been five different “advisors” since he first opened his account.

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11 hours ago, jebjebitz said:

The salesmen  I’ve talked to recently often say the self direct plans are great but then add,”...if you want to do it all by yourself.”  My question is, after the salesmen sign teachers up for these plans, what else do they do for the teacher?  

We have some guys that leave magnets, pencils, rulers, etc. in the teachers lounge occasionally. 😜

Once in awhile even 🍩's so I guess they are good for something.

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