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  1. Yesterday
  2. Hi, I am new here, so I hope I am posting correctly. Mass Mutual was the only 457b option for my Oregon school district. I couldn't actually find accurate fees and expenses so I made an appointment drove 30 minutes to get them. Worth it. High fees and multiple fees Mass mutual hidden away. I am pushing my district to adopt low fee OGSP - Oregon Growth Saving plan. It seems like 457 fees associated with OSGP are much lower than the 457 fees with the current and only Woodburn 457 provider, Mass Mutual. ( there seem to be MANY Mass Mutual fees and expenses in the 30 page agreement. I was able to get a a summary from Wayne Muller which I have attached.) MASS Mutual - example Large Cap Am Century Ultra Invest Mgmt Fee 0.99% 12b-1 Fee 0 Other Expense .02 Total Annual Underlying F.O.E fee = 0.97% Mortality, Expense and Admin Charge= 1.25% fee to CUSO Wayne Muller .35% Total Fees and Charges 2.22% 1.98% to 2.65% a year for Mass Mutual 457 through Wayne Muller at Salem MAPs CUSO vs OSGP through Voya fees Total admin fee = 0.12% Investment fees Stock index 0.040%, to 0.53% total fees and charges OSGP = 0.16
  3. Teachers Retirement Plan “Upon hire, employees classified ET begin automatically contributing eight (8) percent (if hired on or after November 1, 1996) or seven (7) percent (if hired prior to November 1, 1996) of their salary on a biweekly basis into this retirement plan. . Employees who are not classified ET do not contribute to this plan. District of Columbia Teachers’ Retirement Plan Summary Plan Description (SPD).....In order to rollover or withdraw funds from this account, the employee must be separated from DC Government.” You do not control how this money is invested unless you separate from service. Through the 403b and 457, you may invest additional funds that you’re able to invest into various funds. Also, I wasn’t aware of a 5% contribution to a 457; this has not been my experience with DCPS.
  4. Yes, the 457 is great; there several low cost investment options.
  5. likepurplereign, Welcome to the board. It's my understanding that DCPS teachers have a pretty good 457(b).
  6. Purple Reign, Do you get a pension? Is the automatic 8% in 403 and 5% in 457 in place of a pension?
  7. Well, congratulations on your pay raise and new job! Once you identify the better option, can you direct all 13% of it there? Keep us posted and good luck.
  8. Last week
  9. I'm a new DCPS employee and so glad I came across this thread - I'm coming from a non-profit (where I made less but...) that was all Vanguard, TIAA-CREF, and TROWE-Price so this selection is pretty depressing. The thing about DC is that 8% goes to a 403B pretty much automatically and another 5% goes to a 457 (unless you opt out). So, I have to figure out the least bad option for my 8%... It's forced savings basically.
  10. I have yet to see a California vendor list that doesn't include Pension 2.
  11. Love having you join us, Steve. Tim reports that our talk was very well received. - Dan
  12. I too have very mixed feelings about Facebook. In fact I just watched this: The Great Hack and found it chilling. I will say that FB Groups seems to be the best way to utilize this platform. I echo Steve's point: we have much more action on the FB Group page that on the DB. - Dan
  13. Folks Tony Isola deserves an award for journalistic excellence for that title. I'm still laughing but also realize it's no joke. Actually its quite sad.
  14. Never heard of "advantages" of annuities claimed by the sales force? My goodness, you need to listen to the agents. The agents are very good at telling those horror stories about the big bad stock market and how you can lose all of your money overnight! So, an annuity protects your assets because you never lose money in a down market, NEVER! (they never mention that insurance companies can go bankrupt too and the fact that the returns in an annuity are so pathetic that they never will keep up with the pace of inflation. SOOO, you lose money to inflation and taxes over time). Another advantage claimed by the sales force is that the agent will hold your hand throughout (they fail to mention that once the ink is dry by the teacher's signature on that terrible contract, the salesperson is gone!) And lastly, the insurance guarantees that you will get your principal back. WOW! Isn't that neat? The agent doesn't tell you that this is rarely if ever used. Yet those absolutely hideous and completely useless M&E charges are up to 1.25% year after year on top of the other expenses.
  15. Pitiful. I was a kid when my grandmother used to question the validity of studies. I thought she was being a pessimist - and old - (sigh) and reply something like “Oh Nana, why would they publish false or misleading results?” Nana was my most memorable teacher. Thanks for sharing Tony. And Dan, holy cow, it’s great to see you around everywhere these days! Run, Forest, Run!
  16. I was very happy to be there and talk with some of the teachers. Two were from Wisconsin! BTW, one said that "investing is not as complicated as I thought!" That is a huge personal development for anybody interested in financial literacy either for themselves or teaching their students.
  17. Yep, CalSTRS Pension2 https://www.calstrs.com/pension2. It is one of the best 403(b)s in the country.
  18. Tony, This has to be the best topic title yet! (or worst 😀). About to push out a BWISE ALERT and will be sharing this story.
  19. Admin


    Welcome, NYAdmin. Thank you community for your input!
  20. California Teachers Have Great K-12 403(b) Choices. They Just Don't Know It.
  21. tony


    I think Ed gave you plenty of information that is highly accurate and correct I think you should take a very close look at Vanguard Life Strategy Funds. They come in different allocations and are self managed so you can let them sit and you won't have to worry about rebalancing or diversification. I'm in one of them myself. They will cost you slightly more since they require extra work on the part of Vanguard to keep things balanced but they pretty much have the same index funds you would own if you set up a 3-4 fund index fund portfolio. Ed is a do it your-self kind of guy but he has good knowledge and is comfortable with what he is doing. If you feel the least bit timid about handling details by your self than its hard to beat the Life Strategy funds at Vanguard. https://investor.vanguard.com/mutual-funds/lifestrategy/#/ Tony
  22. yeah I'm on the fence about joining facebook actually.
  23. gotta love this article's title https://tonyisola.com/2019/08/two-steaming-piles-of-403b-s/
  24. The only reason why I went back to FB was to collaborate with professional groups like this one. Though I still like this forum for in-depth conversations and exchanges. It feels more secure.
  25. Yeah! The action that has taken place there on FB so far has surpassed the combined action here for the last six months! Our colleagues just don't like forums as much as they like to post on FB. With all of the FB problems, it is surprising.
  26. Earlier
  27. EdLaFave


    You can basically use any institution you want. I have an all Vanguard portfolio so I opened mine with Vanguard. I believe some institutions charge fees if you buy another institution’s funds through them (again, not something I’ve had to deal with). The bogleheads have documented how to build a three fund portfolio with funds from various institutions. So the reason it takes a few hours per year to manage is because you need to keep those funds in the right proportion to each other. When your portfolio is small this means putting new money into the funds that are “low” and when your portfolio is large it means occasionally selling what you have too much or to buy what you have too little of. If you wanted to literally do nothing then a target date fund or a fixed allocation fund like Vanguard’s life strategy fund will handle that for you. Please read my blog post on investing in a marriage that hopefully will last, but may not. I wrote that before I got divorced and I’m happy it is something we considered. To answer your question directly, owning a fund in multiple accounts is fine, owning a fund in a single account is fine. That isn’t what matters. Let’s assume you won’t get divorced. You and your husband should decide on an asset allocation that works best for you two. You should view your entire portfolio as the summation of each account and buy funds in each account based on how cheap it is. Suppose everything in your husband’s 401k is expensive except bonds, you’d want to keep your bonds there (as much as possible), which would mean your other accounts would have to be more stock heavy in order to reach your overall desired asset allocation. ...if your husband has a bunch of funds that either means he is betting on specific sectors/asset classes, which I wouldn’t do, or his account is needlessly complicated, which I also wouldn’t do. It isn’t a huge sin, but it is something to consider.
  28. NYAdmin


    At Moe Money- The answer to your question was that I stumbled upon this site as I was trying to figure out what to do with 403B options with my new employer. At EdLaFave- Thanks for the input. So, I guess I answered my own question #1 and will invest in an IRA. Can I just go to any financial institution to do this (example, I have an existing account with Schwab) or is using a company such as Vanguard easier? I do not have the ability to manage the money myself. Also, Ed. I looked at your recommended reading and am wondering about your statement that the Three Fund Index takes hours per year to manage. I think I'd go with 50% Total Stock, 25% Total International and 25% Bond. What is there to manage? Can't I just declare my funds, then let the sit? Also, it looks like my husband also has a percentage money from his 401K invested in Vanguard's Total Bond and Total International as well as a bunch of other Vanguard Funds. Is it not wise to both have money going into the same fund? Any thoughts, thanks.
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