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  1. Johnnie, have you gotten that documentation? Happy new year, Steve This is the only fee schedule I could find.... http://mcps.yourplan.info/vendors/index.html then click on henders###### financial/lincoln investments then click on MCPS 403b application.... the site here wont post henders.h.o.t ...Section 8 of application and first section of Investment Advisory Statement. I guess when you have thousands of funds to choose from you need an Asset Manager (additional fee of 0.20% - 1.10%) to pick the funds for you, but then what does the Financial Rep do for his 0.90% or the additional compensation from fund companies of 0.25-0.50% on Premier CCP assets? I'm all for advisors getting paid for "advising or planning" not just getting paid to ask if the client wants to increase contributions each year and process paperwork. These additional fees seem to add up. It would be nice if there was a SINGLE page that summarized the fees for all the companies available in a school district. This information has to be available through the initial RFP process? So why doesn't the school district publish the information that they already have?
  2. Guru: Are you telling us that the Federal Thrift Savings Plan, in order to increase participation rates, should use a commissioned sales force to distribute its investment product line-up? The TRS of West Va. adopted that stupidity for its mandatory Defined Contribution Plan---result: the employees were sold a high priced variable annuity which is now the subject of a class action suit alleging fraud. The Federal TSP has a match of up to 5% of contributions which probably accounts for "some" of the participation. Without the match participation might be a little less.
  3. Unless you are buying directly from the source/fund co. , there is always an extra fee. The annuity co. is the middle man. What are the fees of their higher cost funds? You only gave the lower cost funds, and they are indexs so they should be low. Also, are they offering/pushing the Guided Portfolio Services management option. That usually adds an extra .5% on top of the other fees.
  4. ....by asking Fidelity to pay for part of the web site, is merely capturing these education dollars which would otherwise be lost and merely additional profit to Fidelity..... What percentage of these education dollars go to pay for the portal? 100% ? less than 100% ? Fidelity and T. Rowe were vendors before the portal was developed, so where did the education dollars go before this year?
  5. MCPS “Yourplan” portal http://www.yourplan.info/mcps/ 403b/457 plan info Vendor info links Forms and Plan documents Investment reference Calculators Same State different county….. BCPS Payroll Office Homepage http://www.bcps.org/offices/payroll/ http://www.bcps.org/offices/payroll/pdf/Co...he-Benefits.pdf 403b/457 plan info Vendor links Forms Investment reference The MCPS portal is convenient with an all in one place site, but all the information shown is available for FREE if one just takes the effort to look. Call the vendor and ask questions, google Vanguard/Fidelity for investment info, or go to 403bwise which has great newbie info for free. What isn’t shown and hard to find is showing a comparison of fees/expenses for the vendors. Why isn't there a page showing the fees? Also, with a per click charge the cost is generated by some but shared by all participants.
  6. http://www.yourplan.info/pricing.html We recommend that employers pass the cost of the YourPlan.info portal on to the vendors for the privilege of selling products to your employees. Why would vendors want to pay for the YourPlan.info portal? All of your vendors will have their own page on the portal, allowing them to provide specific product information, forms and contact information. This serves as a terrific sales tool, and lends a degree of legitimacy that vendors have not always enjoyed due to the past sales practices of many financial firms (selling in staff lounges, classrooms and cafeterias). If you would like more details about pricing, please send us your contact information through our online form and we will be in touch. ........So passing the cost on to the vendor is just like passing the cost on to the vendor when using a TPA? The vendor pays so the employee and employer don't have too? Is it a one time fee? an annual ongoing fee? based on number of participants?
  7. Roth first, then 403b/b7.
  8. 1. Keep 3-6 months of expenses is cash/money market or CD's for emergency. 2. Look to your state run 529 plan first. They usually have lower fees and a state tax deduction. 3. Keep your Vanguard IRA Rollover where it is at Vanguard. The 2040 fund has 10% bonds/cash which is where you should be based on your age. 3 American funds are not going to be more aggressive unless they are all emerging markets or small cap. I'm sure he picked funds with great returns but the returns already happened. Also those 3 funds will not be more diversified than the 2040 fund at Vanguard. 4. Don't worry about overlap and having more than one target date fund. The 2040/2045/2050 all have about the same allocations currently. The rate at which they get more conservative over time is where they differ. 5. Max out your Roth first and then do the 403b. You are already in the 15% federal tax bracket, deferring taxes at that rate when they will probably be higher in the future is silly. The Roth contributions growth is tax free and none of the investment or sources of retirement income that you have currently are tax free.
  9. The following will give you insight to what the MetLife person was proposing from start to finish ???? MetLife was chosen as the single provider in this county. http://dbs.ccps.org/Accounting%20&%20Finance/TSA.html http://dbs.ccps.org/Accounting%20&%20F...vider%20(2).htm http://dbs.ccps.org/Accounting%20&%20F...ch%204-2-07.pdf I hope to hear what the usual suspects have to say about this plan and why the consultant picked it.
  10. I believe it is not a decent argument because the money markets also guarantee a fixed rate of return so there is no advantage to using the fixed rate annuity especially if its with a high priced annuity provider where the declared rate will always be lower than with TIAA. The proper comparison is with two no-load fixed offerings: One being the TIAA fixed interest annuity contract and the other being the VG money fund. Joel Sorry for not responding, been busy qualifying for the Daytona 500. I was just trying to give AP Teacher a single reason good/bad for an annuity in a 403b. Fixed rate of return in the annuity companies fixed account is the only reason I could come up with. Otherwise VG and Fidelity are the way to go for many people here. Most annuity cos. have a floor in the contract/prospectus that the fixed account rate of return cannot go below. Usually 3% with the larger cos. Sometimes they loose money when rates are low, but your money is locked in so they win over the long term because the rates will eventually go back up. You are correct that a VG money fund would be a great option because its safe and your account value should not go down and you get tax deferral as well. You should not compare a mutual funds MM to an annuity fixed account. The money market is fully liquid and pays a rate comparable to the current T-Bill rate (other commercial paper is used as well). So fees matter. The annuity fixed rate will almost always be slightly higher than the money market, why ? Because the annuity locks your money in for a period of 5 - 12 years depending on the company. You get a better rate of return but you can't get to it, how nice is that :( Lincoln 10 year CDSC, VALIC 5 year CDSC, MetLife 10 - 12 year CDSC, Horace Mann 5 year CDSC, TIAA 10 year TPA (Transfer Payout Annuity). As I said before, if your money is locked in someone else is making more money than they should be, but then again nothing is for free. I'm going fast again!
  11. If you look at the stats in my prior post you will see that aproximately 25% of annuities is invested outside of the low cost annuity and mutual funds which correlates with the amount of 403b funds contributed in the k-12 public school market. This leads to the obervation that retail funds are concentrated in the k-12 market. The problem with offering a 403b plan in the SD market is that the distribution costs are high to gather voluntry contributions and the SD will not pay for the cost of plan administration if the benefit is not negotiated under the contract with the union. In addition many state laws prohibit the cost of plan administration from being passed on to employees. This leaves only the provider to bear the cost of providing services to administer the plan. Low cost providers are reluctant to expand into k-12 market because there is not enough revenue in voluntary 403b contributions and it is cheaper to market IRAs and 529 plans to individuals without incurring any plan administration costs or ISAs. Whether you like it or not, the retail annuity products fill the niche which allows those SD employees wish to join a 403b plan to make contributions. If SD employees want to get other providers as options then it will be necessary for the unions to become involved in negotiating 403b benefits to have the employer pay for plan admin cost. Intruder is right on and it's really that simple. No need to add anything. To address the original post, why have an annuity which defers taxes in a tax shelter? Or why call it a "Tax Sheltered Annuity" when an annuity already defers taxes? How else would someone buy an annuity? After tax dollars in a checking or savings account. So the contributions to a 403b annuity via payroll deduction are tax deferred contributions that grow tax deferred until withdrawn in retirement. Not telling anyone anything new here. The point is contributions are sheltered from taxes and invested in a tax sheltered vehicle getting you more bang from your buck if you are going to be in a lower tax bracket in retirement. Your contributions are sheltered from taxes before going in the annuity, hence tax sheltered annuity. Everyone on this board is a sophisticated investor that would never see the reason to use an annuity. For the unsophisticated investor that can't handle market risk and can't handle their money being down 9.33% YTD, might want an annuity. Why? In an annuity they have these things called fixed accounts that give you a fixed rate of return. So people like Cal Naughton Jr. in Alabama who don't follow the stock market have some comfort knowing that when they retire they will have a little more than they put in and not lose anything. You can't guarantee future performance, you can't guarantee a return on someone's money in a mutual fund. An annuity can guarantee a fixed rate of return. For most of you an annuity is junk, but for the one person you know at your school or work that wouldn't save anywhere but a fixed account it might be OK. Unless the fixed account locks your money in for 10 years, anytime your money is locked in someone else is making more money on it than they should be. We're American, because you're in America, okay? Greatest country on the planet!
  12. Vince: I appreciate your position in this matter even though I firmly disagree. Would anybody else like to comment about my reasonable request in asking Intruder to acknowledge that he is wrong? Joel Would Intruder have been correct if he/she said "NY and NJ exempt SOME, BUT NOT ALL state retirement benefits from state income tax" ????? http://www.state.nj.us/treasury/taxation/i...r.htm~mainFrame New Jersey provides several income exclusions to enable you to reduce your taxable income. You may use the exclusions on your New Jersey income tax return every year you qualify. Pension Exclusion If you (and/or your spouse/civil union partner if filing jointly) are 62 years of age or older on the last day of the tax year, or you qualify as disabled under Social Security guidelines, you may be able to use the "Pension Exclusion" to exclude all or part of your taxable pensions, annuities, and IRA withdrawals provided your gross income for the entire year before subtracting any pension exclusion does not exceed $100,000. The maximum amount you may exclude depends on your filing status. If you are married or in a civil union and file a joint return, you may exclude up to $20,000. If you file as single, head of household, or qualifying widow or widower/surviving civil union partner, you may exclude up to $15,000. If you and your spouse/civil union partner a separate return, you may exclude up to $10,000. If you file a joint return, and both of you qualify for the Pension Exclusion, you may apply the exclusion to the total taxable pension amount on your return. However, if only one spouse/civil union partner is age 62 or older or disabled, then only the income of the one who is age 62 or older or disabled may be excluded. For example: Mr. Miller is 64 and receives a taxable pension of $3,000. Mrs. Miller is 60 and receives a taxable pension of $5,000. The Millers can use the Pension Exclusion to exclude only $3,000 of their total pension income because only Mr. Miller qualifies for the exclusion. http://www.tax.state.ny.us/pdf/publication.../pub36_1207.pdf Pensions of New York State, local governments, and the federal government Qualified pension benefits or distributions received by officers and employees of the United States, New York State, and local governments within New York State, are exempt from New York State, New York City, and Yonkers income taxes. This subtraction modification is allowed regardless of the age of the taxpayer or of the form the payment(s) take. This subtraction modification is allowed for a pension or distribution amount (to the extent the pension or other distribution was included in your federal adjusted gross income) from a pension plan which represents a return of contribution in a year prior to retirement, as an officer, employee, or beneficiary of an officer or an employee of: − New York State including State and City University of New York and the New York State Education Department who belong to the Optional Retirement Program. Pension and annuity income exclusion If you were age 59½ or older before January 1, 2007, you may exclude up to $20,000 of your qualified pension and annuity income from your federal adjusted gross income for purposes of determining your New York adjusted gross income. If you became age 59½ during the tax year, the exclusion is allowed only for the amount of pension and annuity income received on or after you became 59½, but not more than $20,000. Qualified pension and annuity income includes: − periodic payments for services you performed as an employee before you retired; − periodic and lump-sum payments from an IRA, but not payments derived from contributions made after you retired; − periodic distributions from an annuity contract (IRC section 403(b)) purchased by an employer for an employee and the employer is a corporation, community chest fund, foundation or public school; − periodic payments from an HR-10 (Keogh) plan, but not payments derived from contributions made after you retired; − lump-sum payments from an HR-10 (Keogh) plan, but only if federal Form 4972, Tax on Lump Sum Distributions, is not used. Do not include that part of your payment that was derived from contributions made after you retired; − periodic distributions from government sponsored deferred compensation plans (government IRC, section 457), for tax years beginning on or after January 1, 2002; and− periodic distributions of benefits from a cafeteria plan (IRC section 125) or a qualified cash or deferred profit-sharing or stock bonus plan (IRC section 401(k)), but not distributions derived from contributions made after you retired. The exclusion also applies to pension and annuity income received by an estate or trust if the income meets the requirements as described above.
  13. Edy If your investments are earning more than your debt, keep the debt. If your debt is costing you more than you are earning, get rid of the debt. Ricky Boobie: 1. If the investments earn more than the debt because there is no tax (Roth IRA) should you keep the debt? 2. How much does the debt "cost" if it is tax deductible? I can't understand a word you've said the whole time. You couldn't spell cat if you were spotted the c and the a. Yeah, you sound like a dog with peanut butter on the roof of your mouth.
  14. Edy If your investments are earning more than your debt, keep the debt. If your debt is costing you more than you are earning, get rid of the debt. Ricky Boobie: 1. If the investments earn more than the debt because there is no tax (Roth IRA) should you keep the debt? 2. How much does the debt "cost" if it is tax deductible? I can't understand a word you've said the whole time.
  15. Ricky.bobby, First, while I disagree mostly with your points, I have to admit I think your member name is cool. GO FAST! Anyhow, I wouldn't waste my time with the current registered rep. He had plenty of chances to earn his commission and shouldn't get another chance because the client knows better today. I would probably write a letter to American asking that he and Genworth be removed as the broker-of-record. Question; Do BDs get a trail payment on American class B shares or just the up front 4% commission? Second, do you disagree that he'll pay the same expense through a CDSC today or higher 12b-1 fees over the balance of the surrender term. I think he's incurred those costs either way, with little recourse. He saves a 2-3% (or so) redemption fee on the original investment amount by waiting, but pays a .75% fee on the current balance over the next few years. I think, as we say here in Texas, that horse has left the barn. In my opinion that CDSC is a mental barrier devised by the firms to keep folks from bailing. Jim Jim, Both your points are valid. I was just trying to give Lincoln a short term fix for a long term (7 years so far) problem. I'm sensing a little uncertainty from his posts and wanted a solution that will give him some breathing room to make a clear and informed decision. First, if his funds are the standard B-share the rep./advisor/seller or whatever he/she is gets a up front load of 1%(yes they do, it doesn't say so in the prospectus but they do) on any new contribution (12b-1) and a trail (12b-1) of the same 1% after the first year on that contribution. So Lincoln is paying 1% to the rep. each year on the value of the assets in the account. $20,000 would be $200 a year on average for service. The BD gets a piece of that, the reps firm gets a piece and the rest goes to the rep. Second, I agree the CDSC and the offset option of lower fees elsewhere may equal out. What if he takes the CDSC, goes to Vanguard and realizes he doesn't want to do it on his own and needs help? He's already out the CDSC and never recoups the cost through lower expenses. He just cost himself $500 - $750 of CDSC for nothing and ends up back with American Funds to pay another load. I actually think he should bail on his American funds or at least the rep., if he got the same service from a waiter at a restaurant he wouldn't keep going back for seven years and leave a tip. If he leaves today or 3 months from today when he's certain he wants to switch isn't going to cost him as much as making the wrong decision. Jim, you already now the facts and what you want from an investment so it's easy for you to make a decision on the spot, Lincoln just needs time to digest the info and the right answer will apppear for him.
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