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Redwoods

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  1. The "financial representative" of the annuity plan, checked off 6 boxes of his choice, did not inform the employee of the fees, surrender charges, etc. and just asked her to sign it which she did. ================================================ Loaded 403b products are not sold as an investment. They are sold as a tax-shelter. That is what makes the sale an easy one. Jama's post is a testament to how loaded products in the 403b market are sold. Joel
  2. Bill, Sure Jama may be fired...and then we are talking about more egregious employer behavior. BRING IT ON!! This is a matter of free speech which is much, much more important than getting a low cost 403b arrangement. THIS EMPLOYER IS A TROW BACK TO THE DAYS WHEN SUCH A FIRING WAS PERFECTLY LEGAL. THAT ERA I THOUGHT WAS LONG GONE. Peace and Hope, Joel
  3. Your employer's attempt to silence you is worse than not offering no-loads. DONT CAVE IN!! This is clearly a free speech issue. Tell your boss if he/she does not back off you will go to the newspapers. If you have a union they should know about the incident forthwith. Tell your boss also, that they are inflicting great harm by not being "fair and balanced". Find out who are the major financial contributors to your organzation and tell them your issues. Peace and Hope, Joel L. Frank
  4. Redwoods

    403(b) Rmds

    I assume that your "non-qualifed" TSAs are TSAs from prior employment as opposed to a "qualifed" TSA which is from your current employment. Please verify if my assumptions are accurate.
  5. FT said: Of course, the exact same thing can be said about the state of New York (at least in NYSUT/AFT locals...can't speak for the NEA locals). Both loads and no-loads are available in every school district in New York. FT then said: The companies themselves are offered in many, many districts in New York. Not having intimate familiarity with each district in New York State, I can't conclusively state that they are universally available. ============================================== Your retraction of your first statement is noted. Thank You
  6. Redwoods

    Wising Up

    "In fact, Art clearly states that he had gone through three reps in several years, which either validates my observation above (that bad reps take themselves out of business) OR validates the existence of effective internal controls at ING that mandated the departure of these substandard reps." ============================================= So you assert that because he went through 3 reps these individuals either voluntary left their employ with ING or were fired by ING. Why do you refuse to see that there is a third possibiltiy... THAT THEY ARE STILL EMPLOYED BY ING?
  7. Redwoods

    Wising Up

    As I pointed out before and am happy to point out again, the fact that Art has gone through three agents speaks very clearly to the fact that ING takes its responsibility to provide quality assistance to its clients very seriously. ================================================ Or could it be they hire any tom or harry mary jane or sue who happens to have passed the appropriate licensing exam to sell VA? THREE AGENTS? GIVE ME A BREAK! 359 bp as an expense ratio and a 1.6 percent return over 14 years! And to add insult to injury, some of those 359 bp he paid to ING helped ING pay its $1.5 million annual endorsement fee to his NYSUT Benefit Trust.
  8. Redwoods

    Wising Up

    FT: How do you know ING "removed" the three agents? Art said nothing of the kind in his story. The truth is we do not know if they have been removed. Hopefully Art can tell us. Have a nice vacation and insofar as you asserted that every NYSUT local has a no-load menu available I feel you should produce the list especially in light of your remarks that TIAA/Vanguard are nowhere to be found.
  9. A company like TIAA-CREF or Vanguard could easily penetrate this marketplace with a few free seminars on expense ratios and/or basic financial planning, but they're nowhere to be found. ================================================ So if TWO of the major no-load players are nowhere to be found please tell us which no-load families are available to every NYSUT local in the State of NY.
  10. Redwoods

    Wising Up

    My reply follows your post in CAPS As a follow-up question: if a Wisconsin participant gets poor performance for whatever reason (overallocation to underperforming sectors, typical "chasing performance" frequent switching of funds, etc.), do you then call the Wisconsin endorsement into question? Do we ask ourselves how Wisconsin could allow a participant to manage his/her own allocation when (s)he was clearly incapable of doing so? Do we call out the endorsing body for its failure to honor its fiduciary responsibilities? FIRSTLY, THE WEA BENEFIT TRUST DID NOT ENDORSE ANY PROGRAM LOAD OR NO-LOAD IN RETURN FOR A FEE. THE WEA TRUST 403(b) IS A NOT FOR PROFIT CORPORATION AND WAS ESTABLISHED FOR THE EXCLUSIVE USE OF WEA MEMBERS. BEING A NO-LOAD OFFERING THE VENDOR (WEA 403b TRUST) CANNOT BE HELD RESPONSIBLE FOR INVESTMENT RESULTS. REMEMBER, THIS IS A PROGRAM FOR DO IT YOUR SELFERS. BUT YOUR NYSUT BENEFIT TRUST (YOUR ENDORSING BODY) WHICH ENDORSES A VA FOR AN ANNUAL FEE MUST BE HELD TO A HIGHER STANDARD. THE NYSUT/ NYSUT BENEFIT TRUST/ING/ ING AGENT RECEIVE PAYMENT FROM THE NYSUT MEMBER/INVESTOR FOR "FULL SERVICE". SO TO LOWER THE BAR FOR THEM GIVES CREDENCE TO THE FACT THAT THE DEFINITION OF A "FULL SERVICE" PROVIDER IS IN THE MIND OF THE INVESTOR. IF THE ENDORSING BODY (NYSUT BENEFIT TRUST) AND ING ARE HELD TO THE SAME STANDARD AS THE WEA 403b TRUST THEN WE HAVE TO ASK OURSELVES WHY DIDN'T THE NYSUT ESTABLISH ITS OWN 403b TRUST LIKE THE WEA DID?
  11. Your point #6 ties in neatly to this. I've been teaching for five years now, and I've never heard anyone making a push for no-load funds. Frankly, a lot of teachers with VA-based 403(b) accounts aren't even aware that they don't have mutual funds. The best I seem to be able to do is to make them aware that for all the costs they are paying, they should have some pretty high expectations of their agent, but even that is a tough sell, for reasons beyond my comprehension. A company like TIAA-CREF or Vanguard could easily penetrate this marketplace with a few free seminars on expense ratios and/or basic financial planning, but they're nowhere to be found. People like that could be hired, and their salaries paid for with an extra few basis points on each fund. The real question here is, why aren't these companies more aggressive in their pursuits? The obvious answer seems to be that teachers are small potatoes, and it's more economically feasible to go after the bigger fish like Fortune 500 companies' 401(k)'s, and the like. ================================================ Based on your previous assertion would you like to change your current assertion that all NYSUT locals offer no-load 403b arrangements?
  12. Redwoods

    Wising Up

    So what kind of weight can an Opportunity Plus participant place on having a NYSUT Benefit Trust endorsement?
  13. Redwoods

    Redwoods

    Independent, We invite you to submit your opinion as well.
  14. Redwoods

    Wising Up

    So why did you receive a different level/quality of service than Art? Why are you so pleased while Art is so upset? Do I need to repeat myself? Because we obviously have different agents. Mine has been, and continues to be, exceptionally helpful, and well worth what I pay him. Art's obviously was not...so he fired him. As he should have done. ================================================ FT: But NYSUT asserts that it established Opportunity Plus to assure that all teachers in the state were not left to the mercy of commissioned sales agent. The "design" of Opportunity Plus was adopted specifically to assure that horror stories like Art's were a thing of the past. Not only are they not a thing of the past they are inflicted by, not only the other 403b loaded vendors' reps, but by reps' of the union's hand picked vendor. In my view Art's story is just the tip of the iceberg. I'm glad Art "fired" his agent but why did his Benefits Trust put him in this position? Why does NYSUT Benefit Trust allow this incompetent person to continue to "service" other Opportunity Plus participants? Why is he still employed to work his horror on other Opportunity Plus participants? Why is it left to chance as far as the competency of the agent is concerned. Should not all agents be required to provide the same level of service as you get from your agent? What is the process for assigning agents? Why wasn't his agent a CFP like yours is? Where are the internal controls over the agent? Is he just free to "service" as he sees fit with no oversight?
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