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txishome

Had A Meeting With Aig Valic

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Guest TR1982

AP,

You are looking at only one example of how someone might do it. You are assuming any person would have the Vanguard target ret funds available to them. That is not the case and that is my point. Most retirement plans in the world don't have those funds! Given what is available to him he has a good deal. Why can't you guys just say that? You're like Fonzi on Happy Days when he has to admit he's wrong and can't get the words out of his mouth.

 

Let's just end this discussion. You will never concede anything here and so it's pointless to continue.

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TR,

 

"You will never concede anything here and so it's pointless to continue."

 

Here are some quotations from my past responses to this thread:

 

"this is far from the worst plan I've heard of"

".82% is not too bad compared to some fee-laden plans"

"TX believes that he made the best decision he could. Good for him. If he is comfortable with that, I wish him the best. He could do far worse. "

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Also, TR, you stated:

 

"You are looking at only one example of how someone might do it. You are assuming any person would have the Vanguard target ret funds available to them. That is not the case and that is my point."

 

But actually, I didn't assume that, did I? I earlier stated:

 

"In comparison to Vanguard and Fidelity Spartan, VALIC is mediocre at best. But again, if TX does not have these available, he may have done the best that he could."(Italics added for emphasis)

 

TR, you have accused us before of making unwarranted assumptions. It appears that you have done that yourself, haven't you?

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TR

 

""That's fine TR, you can have the last word now, but when novice txishome finds out that he made his decision based on misrepresentation of facts by the agent"

I love this! You were there and so you know the advisor misrepresented the facts."

 

Actually, if txishome winds up paying .82, although one can get less expensive fee, the expense ratio is OK especially in a world where the average is about 1.5: but, TR based on experience I'm 99percent sure that there are other fees that txishome did not find out about because of his inexperience. For example, did txishome read the small print in his prospectus, or did he even get one ?

 

 

TR IF YOUR SO SURE THAT TXISHOME WILL WIND UP PAYING ONLY 0.82 ANNUAL EXPENSES WITH NO HIDDEN CHARGES, WHY DON'T YOU GET HIS ADDRESS AND SEND HIM A DOCUMENT GUARANTEEING HIM THAT THIS WILL IN FACT OCCUR. i'M SURE IF ONE OF YOUR SATISFIED CLIENTS CONFRONTED YOU AND ASKED YOU FOR THIS TYPE STATEMENT, YOU WOULD JUMP UP AND DOWN IN A BLUSTER , AS YOU DO HERE WHEN CONFRONTED WITH POSITIONS THAT YOU CANNOT DEFEND.

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Gotta hop back in here. Please advise to the names of these fees that I am overlooking. I know there are no 12-b fees. The mutual funds offered are no load funds. Give me a list of fees and I'll make the phone call. Again, thank you for all of your input. Although you may not realize, I even gather good information from ya'lls bickering!!

 

Txishome (inexperienced, novice, I can't recall any others)

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txishome

 

You need to get a prospectus, and go through it, especially the real small footnote type print that discusses fees, If there are extra expenses, it will be in the prospectus, but hidden as much as possible.

 

In a previous post I said, "Aside from the 0.32 for Valic, do the mutual funds companies that Valic handles have loads?, surender charges, 12b-1 fee ,etc . What are the expense ratios of these funds. Do these funds convert part of their cost to Valic on an annual basis to administration. Did you get a prospectus, and have you read the fine print"

 

What Valic might do is , have the funds pay Valic directly additional adminstration charges, which you would not see.

 

Basically, you have to look very close for the "catch" that they have. I'm 99% sure that there will be one.

 

Additionally, the other good guys have given you information that you can look at.

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Guest Joes

You all do realize that idexing has failed to work for many people when systematic contributions or withdrawls where taken into account for many time periods w/ one exception 10 years 1995 to 2005 the time period all index studies seem to be based on.

 

Heres just one example

 

AMF vs. S&P 500

$100,000 investment 1/1/70–12/31/99

All dividends and capital gains reinvested

$5,000 (5%) withdrawal in first year ($416.67 a month)

Monthly withdrawal amount increased 5% each year thereafter

(5% withdrawal rate is based on an average inflation rate of 5.11% for that period as measured by the Consumer Price Index)

Total withdrawals Ending value

American Mutual Fund $332,194 $1,296,113

 

 

S&P 500 $332,194 $555,561

 

Sooner or later the terrible advice given one this site will really hurt some poor investor who should have gone to the Doctor to get real help instead of trying the learn it yourself home cure approach. Its great to see the ones who moan and grown about fees and have the I'll go it alone approach never seem to have any real money to invest.

 

The real investors pay money to make money.

 

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Guest TR1982

TR

 

""That's fine TR, you can have the last word now, but when novice txishome finds out that he made his decision based on misrepresentation of facts by the agent"

I love this! You were there and so you know the advisor misrepresented the facts."

 

Actually, if txishome winds up paying .82, although one can get less expensive fee, the expense ratio is OK especially in a world where the average is about 1.5: but, TR based on experience I'm 99percent sure that there are other fees that txishome did not find out about because of his inexperience. For example, did txishome read the small print in his prospectus, or did he even get one ?

 

 

TR IF YOUR SO SURE THAT TXISHOME WILL WIND UP PAYING ONLY 0.82 ANNUAL EXPENSES WITH NO HIDDEN CHARGES, WHY DON'T YOU GET HIS ADDRESS AND SEND HIM A DOCUMENT GUARANTEEING HIM THAT THIS WILL IN FACT OCCUR. i'M SURE IF ONE OF YOUR SATISFIED CLIENTS CONFRONTED YOU AND ASKED YOU FOR THIS TYPE STATEMENT, YOU WOULD JUMP UP AND DOWN IN A BLUSTER , AS YOU DO HERE WHEN CONFRONTED WITH POSITIONS THAT YOU CANNOT DEFEND.

 

 

Ira,

If you are so sure he's being hosed why don't you GET HIS ADDRESS AND SEND HIM A DOCUMENT GUARANTEEING HIM THAT THIS WILL IN FACT OCCUR. I never said anything or claimed anything.

I simply suggested that he get the prospectus and talk to the advisor, which he did and which many of you told him to do. He did what you asked and you can't accept the answers. There must be some hidden fees or union conspiracy or whatever. Get a life.

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Joes,

The more your pros talk about your comparisons, the more I laugh. Except that real people get hurt in the long run with high fees and with the scripted and narrow advice and information you put out. You will get away with it in the real world, but not here in this site. So here we go again with an explanation: 500 index is just ONE index. Heck, I only have a small part of my portfolio in the s&p 500. Again you are not listening to what we say around here. We invest in several asset classes, all low fees and most but not all are indexed. Enough said.

Steve

 

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"Ira,

If you are so sure he's being hosed why don't you GET HIS ADDRESS AND SEND HIM A DOCUMENT GUARANTEEING HIM THAT THIS WILL IN FACT OCCUR. I never said anything or claimed anything.

I simply suggested that he get the prospectus and talk to the advisor, which he did and which many of you told him to do. He did what you asked and you can't accept the answers. There must be some hidden fees or union conspiracy or whatever. Get a life"

 

TR, the downside of his making an error of buying the product without complete due diligence and making an error by buying will cost Txishome a good deal of money(as you encourage); the only downside of Txishome doing a complete evalution of the Valic product (as I and the other good guys encourage) is an education for Txishome, the upside is saving lot's of money.

 

TR, I am the one who suggested that he get a prospectus (in order to keep the "SALES advisor" honest.) I didn't notice you telling him to get a prospectus in this thread.

 

Steve,

 

Thank you for answering the post by Joes. As you notice, after confronted with knowledge about how no load,low annual cost index funds do significantly better that high expense loaded and non loaded funds over time the majority of sales advisors who visit this site are wise enough not to debate the issue. This information can be found in various books which include but not limited to "Common Sense on mutual funds" by Mr. John Bogle, founder and former ceo of Vanguard, any book by Swedroe, Also Berstein, Maikel, Ellis, etc.

 

 

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Guest TR1982

Txishome, If you decide to go for the AIG sales presentaation, please get back to us, and let us know if the salesman volunteers information about all of the various sales charges that his company makes, and that there are other choices available to you at no load , low expense fund company such as Vanguard where there are index funds that average only o.2 of a percent a year allowing you to realize more.

 

Anyway, the bottom line is that no matter what the salesperson says, Valic, load fund and insurance companies are very poor choices. The only way someone will buy a 403b load fund from one of these sales people is that the investor does not have all necessary information to make an intellignt choice which these advisors do not give(if they want to make a sale).

 

 

Ira,

Just thought I'd remind you of the unbiased information you so freely dumped on Tx. Clearly, you are an expert on every investment companies fund offerings and fee structures. Maybe we should just call the site IRA'S EXPERT INFO ON ALL MATTERS FINANCIAL (i.e. the answer is Vanguard).

 

Most importantly, you know what every advisor will say before he says it so there is no need to ever have a meeting with one. You should get paid for that gift.

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Union Advice Failing Teachers

(free login required)

 

Because of fees, annuities generally post lower returns than mutual funds with similar investment strategies. Here is how $10,000 invested in three Valuebuilder annuities from Security Benefit Life Insurance and endorsed by the National Education Assn. Performed compared with low-cost mutual funds with similar investment strategies offered by Vanguard Group.

 

5 years

 

Vanguard Global Equity (Foreign stocks): $18,167

 

NEA Valuebuilder Security Global (Foreign stocks): $11,892

 

*

 

5 years

 

Vanguard Wellington (Stocks and bonds): $14,050

 

NEA Valuebuilder Van Kampen Equity & Income (Stocks and bonds): $12,618

 

*

 

5 years

 

Vanguard Equity Income (Blue-chip stocks): $12,265

 

NEA Valuebuilder Van Kampen Comstock (Blue-chip stocks): $12,125

 

Amounts based on actual fund returns for the five years ended Dec. 31. Return and cost data based on return calculator at http://www.sec.gov .

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"Sooner or later the terrible advice given one this site will really hurt some poor investor who should have gone to the Doctor to get real help instead of trying the learn it yourself home cure approach. Its great to see the ones who moan and grown about fees and have the I'll go it alone approach never seem to have any real money to invest.

 

The real investors pay money to make money."

 

Joes,

 

You are so comical. Haven't you read the posts of people on this site who want to get the hell out of the crappy programs you agents put them into? WE are giving terrible advice on this site? Wow, that's a one. Check out the LA Times article today about the pathetic job that agents are doing in putting teachers into inappropriate investments. People like me on this site suggest that folks investigate simple, low cost products (when they are available) like target retirement funds. And you think that is terrible advice? How about agents that put people into NEA Valuebuilder with fees as high as 4.85%? Hey, Joes, TR and all you other agents: do you invest in programs like Valuebuilder yourselves? Do you invest in the same programs that you are selling? Do you eat your own cooking?

 

 

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"Sooner or later the terrible advice given one this site will really hurt some poor investor who should have gone to the Doctor to get real help instead of trying the learn it yourself home cure approach. Its great to see the ones who moan and grown about fees and have the I'll go it alone approach never seem to have any real money to invest.

 

The real investors pay money to make money."

 

Joes,

 

You are so comical. Haven't you read the posts of people on this site who want to get the hell out of the crappy programs you agents put them into? WE are giving terrible advice on this site? Wow, that's a one. Check out the LA Times article today about the pathetic job that agents are doing in putting teachers into inappropriate investments. People like me on this site suggest that folks investigate simple, low cost products (when they are available) like target retirement funds. And you think that is terrible advice? How about agents that put people into NEA Valuebuilder with fees as high as 4.85%? Hey, Joes, TR and all you other agents: do you invest in programs like Valuebuilder yourselves? Do you invest in the same programs that you are selling? Do you eat your own cooking?

 

 

Ap: You've got mail. I Hope! Thanks for your help. I have made some progress, too.

 

febarnes

 

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TR, you wrote

 

"Ira,

Just thought I'd remind you of the unbiased information you so freely dumped on Tx. Clearly, you are an expert on every investment companies fund offerings and fee structures. Maybe we should just call the site IRA'S EXPERT INFO ON ALL MATTERS FINANCIAL (i.e. the answer is Vanguard).

 

Most importantly, you know what every advisor will say before he says it so there is no need to ever have a meeting with one. You should get paid for that gift."

 

 

TR........Actually, I and the other "good guys" do own this site because we provide the truth to the new investor, that we tell them about no load, low cost funds without 12b-1 fees and hidden costs provided by Vanguard, Fidelity Spartan, TIAACREF and other low cost providers . Of course "SALES advisors" who work for companies with exhorbitant fees are primarily interested in making as much money as they could on the packs of the investors(worker). We "good guys are hear to tell them the story so they will not fall prey to the "SALES advisor"

 

I wish to give a personal wish of THANK YOU to you for your posts which have set an envoronment for us to provide the truth to the novice investor time and time again. Since your post do not have very much substance they are easy to build on and provide an education to the new investor who might fall prey to a "SALES advisor" who wants to take advantage of them.

 

TR.........keep on posting...........thanks again...........Ira

Edited by ira

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"Ira,

Just thought I'd remind you of the unbiased information you so freely dumped on Tx. Clearly, you are an expert on every investment companies fund offerings and fee structures. Maybe we should just call the site IRA'S EXPERT INFO ON ALL MATTERS FINANCIAL (i.e. the answer is Vanguard)."

 

Ira,

 

TR has made the same accusation against me. If someone with whom he disagrees makes a point that suggests a certain degree of financial acumen, he accuses that person of trying to be a know it all.

 

I, too, thank TR for sharing his views, and for (usually) expressing them in such a persuasive manner. What a forum he provides for us! There is an expression used by Lenin to describe TR's type, but it would be too insulting to use here.

Edited by apteacher

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