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Axa Rep Threatens 403(b) Advocate

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Guest TR1982

What a typical AP post. Assume, assume, assume. I guess that's what you do with all your students and parents. I'm glad my kids don't have you for a teacher. It's obvious they wouldn't get any kind of a fair shake.

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TR1982,

 

No we don't know the entire contents of the email. I was referencing your comment "It's clear from the article that we have no idea what was said in those emails" which was clearly misguided. My guess is you hardly read the article; had your opinion made up prior to reading the article; and will continue to defend the industry at all costs. You are right that there are two sides to every story and finally there is another side to the 403(b) story. And it's not just 403(b)wise telling it; it is also... Forbes, The Wall Street Journal, LA Times, USA Today, Washington Post, etc. etc. etc. The trickle of water is fast becoming a flood...

 

Dan Otter

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Guest TR1982

Dan,

Please accept my apology for misspeaking. That doesn't change the point of what I was saying and you know it. You just don't want to admit it. We still don't know anything more about what happened and you don't know the other side of the story. It seems obvious that you don't want to know, since you are engaging in the same kind of behavior you accuse me of, making up my mind before I read the article. Gee Dan, I guess what's good for the goose is good for the gander.

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The point that was made in the article was not that the teacher was threatened with violence but that he was threatened with a potential lawsuit (what most people assume would happen when contacted by a legal department). There was nothing in the article about violence. TR tries to make a point that the reporter's use of the word is inappropriately used. A man making less than $65,000 is told by a billion dollar insurance company to expect to be contacted by their legal department. All things being equal I would rather have been threatened with violence in this situation. There is nothing missing in the article. A teacher was educating colleagues, without compensation, about the impact of the fees of in an annuity. A sales rep finds out, so does his superior, and it is obvious that they would want this teacher to stop informing their clients and potential clients that they may be losing money. The mistake this rep made was assuming that this teacher did not know what he was entitled to say under SEC regulations. He assumed wrong. There was nothing else to the email, I have a copy but I'm afraid to send it to TR because I'm afraid I may be contacted by insurance company's legal department, :). Thanks much to Dan Otter and this website for making stories like the one out of Wayne hopefully more and more common. Change is possible, the teacher in this story proved it.

 

Doug Layman

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Guest TR1982

Well, if you have a copy why don't you simply provide it? I guess you really feel threatened by anonymous posters on a website. So scary.

 

By the way, the inference to physical violence was not by me, it was made by Mark Fischer. That is what I was objecting to all along.

 

 

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Guest TR1982

Because of your hard work and truth in advertising, I've decided to come clean.

 

I confess that when I sell high priced annuities to unsuspecting teachers I regularly do so using threatening letters. When the poor little church mice don't buy, I then resort to a bowie knife. When all else fails, I pull out my 357 magnum. It's usually pretty effective. Unfortunately, there are a few punks who feel lucky and want to guess how many bullets are left in my gun. You can imagine what happens to them. :)

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Guest Sierra

The New Jersey Education Association has had a hands-off policy when it comes to the 403b for 45 years.

 

Question: NJEA, don't you feel your dues paying members have been fleeced long enough by the high priced vendors? Why don't you get a call into the Wisconsin Education Association and see how they protect the hard earned money of their members. Your hands off policy is the PRIMARY reason your members have been fleeced. You surely cannot be proud of this.

 

Peace and hope,

Joel L. Frank

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What a typical AP post. Assume, assume, assume. I guess that's what you do with all your students and parents. I'm glad my kids don't have you for a teacher. It's obvious they wouldn't get any kind of a fair shake.

 

 

Your defense of this thug (and yes, it is a defense) is so typical. Don't assume ANYTHING, even if it is staring you in the face. We can't assume ANYTHING, no matter how obvious it is, and therefore any type of misbehavior in your industry can be defended. "How do we know this agent actually sent the e-mail? Maybe it was Dan Otter. How do we KNOW that it wasn't Dan? Is there any EVIDENCE to show that Dan DIDN'T send it in a thinly-veiled attempt to bring down the 403b agents in this country?"

 

You continue to be the best advocate for do-it-yourself investors by your failure to condemn the abuses committed by some in your industry.

 

 

 

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TR,

 

There was no inference to physical violence. I simply used my personal experience to substantiate my belief that the teacher was threatened and that it is not uncommon.

 

I was also sued, because I advised a client not to allow 403b reps to take personal custody of client funds. From my experience, physical and legal intimidation is not foreign to the world of 403b reps.

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Guest TR1982

"Having had myself and my family threatened with violence, this comes as no surprise to me. I have also heard the giving advice without a license ploy used more than once. Unfortunately, most of the time, IMO, the reps actually believe what they are saying, due to an ignorance of the laws that regulate their own activity."

 

 

Rightttttttttttt.....................................................................

 

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Good thing you are not a teacher. It seems that you do not understand the term inference and have a difficult time following a argument. I hope you have a better understanding of finance than you do for English and logic.

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Guest TR1982

Good thing you are not a teacher. It seems that you do not understand the term inference and have a difficult time following a argument. I hope you have a better understanding of finance than you do for English and logic.

 

 

Definition of infer:

 

3 entries found for infer.

 

1. To conclude from evidence or premises.

2. To reason from circumstance; surmise: We can infer that his motive in publishing the diary was less than honorable.

3. To lead to as a consequence or conclusion: “Socrates argued that a statue inferred the existence of a sculptor” (Academy).

4. To hint; imply.

 

I am not a teacher. I do have a BA in English from Wake Forest University. Now, Mr. Smartypants, the usage I was using was in item 4, to hint or imply something. I think maybe You should go back and check your usage and your memory. You can dance around this one all you want but you were definitely INFERRING physical violence. Why else would you bring it up? Oh, I guess the word violence doesn't mean physical violence. I guess you suscribe to the Clinton school of language manipulation.

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I gave my experience to support my belief in the allegation. I never implied that violence was threatened in the NJ situation.

 

Were you on the basketball team at WF? It would explain you lack of ability to follow an argument. It would also explain you rabid defense of the indefendable.

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Guest TR1982

I gave my experience to support my belief in the allegation. I never implied that violence was threatened in the NJ situation.

 

Were you on the basketball team at WF? It would explain you lack of ability to follow an argument. It would also explain you rabid defense of the indefendable.

 

 

At least I went to collige. Look, if your went to critcize me personally and acuse me of being stuped, look in the mirer first and at least run a spill check and gromrr check before you tipe. The word is "your" not you and indefensible not "indefendable".

 

My criticism of your comment was that your family being threatened with physical violence has absolutely nothing to do with this incident and left the impression that the situation involved some threat of physical violence, which it did not. That's all I ever said.

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