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Guest Sierra

Joel,

You did not answer my question. How long have you been a libertarian? Recently and or your entire life…

It partly explains your hated of unions and the public pension systems.

 

FYI, I may not be where I am today if it weren’t for unions. My mother worked for MMM during the 50s and 60s when I grew up. She was a blue collar worker, a union member and she managed to save enough money, a couple of thousand for me to attend my first year of college.

 

If my mother had the type of working conditions that exist now at the same MMM plant in my small hometown farming community in northern Wisconsin, she would be fired every six months so that she would not get any benefits, no raises, minimum wage scale forever. I kid you not. I was shocked! These conditions are occurring NOW. Of course the union was abolished decades ago. I would be very poor with not the same opportunities that I had with my mother’s union. Times were better in the 1960s than they are now!

 

Libertarians believe in individual and property rights as you said, but politically they go much farther than that, abolishing all unions, public education, and some extremists want to abolish public roads, utilities, turn everything that is now public into a private enterprise. It’s not a pretty sight. It’s all about individual and their rights.

 

I think there is tremendous value in having the common good. Or as our founding fathers wrote “to promote the general welfare..”” Perhaps someday when all people are on the same playing field, then we could see something politically different from what we have now. I don’t know what that is but to limit it just to individual rights only, without the public good, would render us to a uncivilized society build on private police, barricaded communities and gangs everywhere else. Futuristic ######s and books have been written about this horrific image. In this day and age, we are not that far from it.

Just some thoughts,

Steve

 

Are you not capable of remaining on topic? Apparently not! Rather than simply saying a CHOICE of plans is long overdue you accuse me of hating unions and public pension systems and then proceed to tell me all the good that unions have done. They are suppose to do good. That's their job!! They get no applause from me for doing their job!

 

The UNIONS are derelict in doing their job when they give a CHOICE of plans to just educators on the higher education level. Do you call this doing good. WHY ARE THE UNIONS AFRAID OF CHOICE FOR THE K12 CROWD BUT ADVOCATE CHOICE FOR THE HIGHER EDUCATION GROUP?

 

May I remind all of us that it is YOU, Steve Schullo, that always asserts and reasserts, and properly so, that the 403(b) mess is owed in no large measure to UNCARING unions across this nation. I guess we should accuse you of hating unions.

 

Peace and Hope,

Joel

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Joel,

You are incapable of having a discussion with my topic not yours. You cleverly took my comments about the need to have a supplement to our pension system out of text and made it your own and then accuse me of going off topic.

I have said over and over again for years that I am a strong union member and have worked with my union to reform the way they handle 403b vendors. We have made some progress. Its takes time to change. When I say uncaring unions, I mean the 403b vendors and YOU KNOW THAT. You sit behind your computer, write poisonous opinions about the unions and the pension system that we actually like. APteacher, Joe M, Dan O. Tony, IRA and others actually go out and work with the system we have and try to make reforms by talking with administrators, going to meetings, etc.

You are incapable of working with the system we have and reform it. I have never read about you going anywhere and offering workshops, organizing meetings, becoming a member of a committee, writing a brochure, writing articles etc. (BTW, the articles that I have written were published in my UNION NEWSPAPER). OK fine, but don't stand in the way with your vitriolic comments and false accusations about our motivations. This site is not just yours.

 

 

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Guest Sierra

Joel,

You are incapable of having a discussion with my topic not yours. You cleverly took my comments about the need to have a supplement to our pension system out of text and made it your own and then accuse me of going off topic.

I have said over and over again for years that I am a strong union member and have worked with my union to reform the way they handle 403b vendors. We have made some progress. Its takes time to change. When I say uncaring unions, I mean the 403b vendors and YOU KNOW THAT. You sit behind your computer, write poisonous opinions about the unions and the pension system that we actually like. APteacher, Joe M, Dan O. Tony, IRA and others actually go out and work with the system we have and try to make reforms by talking with administrators, going to meetings, etc.

You are incapable of working with the system we have and reform it. I have never read about you going anywhere and offering workshops, organizing meetings, becoming a member of a committee, writing a brochure, writing articles etc. (BTW, the articles that I have written were published in my UNION NEWSPAPER). OK fine, but don't stand in the way with your vitriolic comments and false accusations about our motivations. This site is not just yours.

 

You already have a COLA attached to the DB pension...but you assert it is deficient. So what are you proposing the unions do, demand a 100.0 percent COLA? Is that the only way of addressing the inflation problem of retirees? Of course not! Giving people a choice of plans to start with is a viable solution.

 

WHY ARE THE UNIONS UNALTERABLY OPPOSED TO GIVING THE K12 CROWD A CHOICE OF PLANS WHEN 40 YEARS AGO THEY WERE IN THE VANGUARD OF DOING JUST THAT FOR THE COLLEGE CROWD?

IF YOU BELIEVE THE REASONS I HAVE GIVEN ARE "FALSE" THEN YOU SHOULD FURNISH US WITH THE TRUE REASONS.

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Guest Sierra

Joel,

You are incapable of having a discussion with my topic not yours. You cleverly took my comments about the need to have a supplement to our pension system out of text and made it your own and then accuse me of going off topic.

I have said over and over again for years that I am a strong union member and have worked with my union to reform the way they handle 403b vendors. We have made some progress. Its takes time to change. When I say uncaring unions, I mean the 403b vendors and YOU KNOW THAT. You sit behind your computer, write poisonous opinions about the unions and the pension system that we actually like. APteacher, Joe M, Dan O. Tony, IRA and others actually go out and work with the system we have and try to make reforms by talking with administrators, going to meetings, etc.

You are incapable of working with the system we have and reform it. I have never read about you going anywhere and offering workshops, organizing meetings, becoming a member of a committee, writing a brochure, writing articles etc. (BTW, the articles that I have written were published in my UNION NEWSPAPER). OK fine, but don't stand in the way with your vitriolic comments and false accusations about our motivations. This site is not just yours.

 

You already have a COLA attached to the DB pension...but you assert it is deficient. So what are you proposing the unions do, demand a 100.0 percent COLA? Is that the only way of addressing the inflation problem of retirees? Of course not! Giving people a choice of plans to start with is a viable solution.

 

WHY ARE THE UNIONS UNALTERABLY OPPOSED TO GIVING THE K12 CROWD A CHOICE OF PLANS WHEN 40 YEARS AGO THEY WERE IN THE VANGUARD OF DOING JUST THAT FOR THE COLLEGE CROWD?

IF YOU BELIEVE THE REASONS I HAVE GIVEN ARE "FALSE" THEN YOU SHOULD FURNISH US WITH THE TRUE REASONS.

 

Another reason for not giving the k12 crowd a CHOICE of plans is that governments like to use the DB Plan as a way to fund other government projects. Ex. Use a string of above average investment returns as an argument not to fund the Plan for a succession of years. DC Plans cannot be used in the same way! Steve: Are you now going to call me a government hater?

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