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tony

How Many Extra Years Do You Wish To Work

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Guest Skeptical

Unlike you I have a real day job which takes up most of my time in ......since you have so much free time.

 

Why do you resort to insults so quickly and frequently? Make your points, take your lumps when your wrong, and participate with a minimum level of courtesy. It's not that hard, really.

 

Jim

 

 

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Unlike you I have a real day job which takes up most of my time in ......since you have so much free time.

 

Why do you resort to insults so quickly and frequently? Make your points, take your lumps when your wrong, and participate with a minimum level of courtesy. It's not that hard, really.

 

Jim

 

 

And you dont resort to insults? When are you going to admit that the unions dont care about better 403b choices and that in order to change to low cost products higher participation rates by employees is necessary. Its not that hard, really.

 

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I don't think thats the response you were supposed to answer . Intruder , I do take issue that when you get backed in a corner you starting insulting the educators here. Please stop doing that its not pertinent to the discussion.

 

 

RESPECTFULLY stated,

 

 

Tony

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I have read a lot about low cost mutual funds on this board. I like the idea, but I have a couple of questions..

 

1. Where do these companies make their money?

 

2. Who helps me manage the money in the funds? I have an associate who lost over half of her retirement 5 years before she was to retire. She is still working because of that. I dont want to have to work that long.

 

Thank You.

 

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Unlike you I have a real day job ...

 

 

Your contempt for the very people who are served by the industry in which you make your living is noted. If this contempt is typical for the people in your industry, it may well help to explain the poor quality of the products that it sells.

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I don't think thats the response you were supposed to answer . Intruder , I do take issue that when you get backed in a corner you starting insulting the educators here. Please stop doing that its not pertinent to the discussion.

 

 

RESPECTFULLY stated,

 

 

Tony

 

 

I wont make any further comments on educators if all of you stop making derogatory comments about persons you believe to have an "industry bias" regardless of whether they do or dont.

 

Deal or no deal?

 

And you can respond to the questions that I have posted.

 

Have a nice day.

 

 

 

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Who helps me manage the money in the funds? I have an associate who lost over half of her retirement 5 years before she was to retire. She is still working because of that. I dont want to have to work that long.

 

 

 

Low cost funds do not necessarily protect you from downturns in the general market any better than more expensive funds. Any time you invest in stocks you are taking a risk. I would bet during the time your friend lost half her assetts in a low fee fund, someone in a high fee fund lost the same amount if the funds were invested in similiar investment styles.

 

You are missing the point . Over time the stock market goes up. It has dips along the way sometimes severe ones. Smart investors ignore these dips and leave the money alone. Over time you win out usually.

 

The extra fees you are paying drain your account over time of substancial profit.

 

If you were referring to Managed funds Vs. Index Funds. Keep in mind that OVER TIME most (about to 75%)

of managed funds do not beat the index. Unless you can find those twenty five per cent year in and year out its a losers game to try and beat the market index.

 

 

Companies make their money in low cost funds by growing their assetts and not being greedy and controling their costs.

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I wont make any further comments on educators if all of you stop making derogatory comments about persons you believe to have an "industry bias" regardless of whether they do or dont.

 

Deal or no deal?

 

And you can respond to the questions that I have posted.

 

Have a nice day.

 

You still have not responded to the original issue concerning the time value of money. You seemed to deny that a 1% increase in costs could result in a difference of hundreds of thousands of dollars over time.

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And I would like to add. If your friend lost 1/2 of her money working through an advisor that just proves these guys are worthless. You could have lost that money on your own with out paying someone extra to do it for you.

 

If the advisor has balanced her accounts-bonds , cash etc, she would not have lost that much. Thats the point.

If you are going to give your money away to salespeople and advisors then by golly know enough about investments to demand they do you right!!

 

 

 

And I would like to add. If your friend lost 1/2 of her money working through an advisor that just proves these guys are worthless. You could have lost that money on your own with out paying someone extra to do it for you.

 

If the advisor has balanced her accounts-bonds , cash etc, she would not have lost that much. Thats the point.

If you are going to give your money away to salespeople and advisors then by golly know enough about investments to demand they do you right!!

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No.. sigh.. she was not using an advisor. Someone told her she would do better on her own so she tried. Most of my peers dont have the experience to manage their own money. I dont. Smile So I dont try.

 

I am in an equity index annuity.. there are no fees.. but there are surrender charges. I dont mind those as it is a long term invesment for me. I think it helps to add to the discipline.. (which I lack sometimes)

 

Thanks Tony for your comments. I appreaciate that.

 

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No.. sigh.. she was not using an advisor. Someone told her she would do better on her own so she tried. Most of my peers dont have the experience to manage their own money. I dont. Smile So I dont try.

 

I am in an equity index annuity.. there are no fees.. but there are surrender charges. I dont mind those as it is a long term invesment for me. I think it helps to add to the discipline.. (which I lack sometimes)

 

Thanks Tony for your comments. I appreaciate that.

 

Uh-oh. Equity index annuities are ... wait, read this about EIAs, which is taken from this forum's web site:

 

"Equity-indexed annuities are being heavily pushed by the insurance industry as a way to enjoy the growth of the stock market without the risk. Lack of disclosure and complicated return formulas, coupled with extremely high commissions and long surrender periods have combined to make this "investment" a riddle wrapped in an enigma. Two-tier and bonus annuities are equally suspect. Some agents push the tax-deferred benefits of annuity products. The 403(b) and 457(b) are already tax-deferred vehicles. No further tax benefit is achieved by investing 403(b) and 457(b) money in an annuity. Finally, be wary of those tauting the loan provisions of annuity products."

 

And as for "no fees." Well, just think about that. Why would the salesperson be selling the product?

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I am in an equity index annuity.. there are no fees.. but there are surrender charges. I dont mind those as it is a long term invesment for me. I think it helps to add to the discipline.. (which I lack sometimes)

 

I am terribly sorry to be the one to inform you that you do, in fact, have fees in your EIA. They've only been subtly renamed to more socially acceptable terms such as: participation rate, interest rate cap, margin, spread, administrative fee. Please see the FINRA "caution" on the following page: http://www.finra.org/InvestorInformation/I...ourceNodeId=451

*edit* Oh well, maybe I'll be the second one to inform you!*

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Sorry I do not know how to do the quote thing. Tried and it looked like a mess. I hope that is OK. The lady I talked to about my account when I opened it did explain to me about the CAPs, etc. I did do a little reading before I went with these folks and I have been very happy so far.. the last two years I have done just over 7%.. so far so good.

 

My agent has been great about answering questions and I feel pretty g

good about her. I have learned from past experience about what NOT to do.. which is one of the things that brought me to this site in the first place.

 

Thank you for the FINRA post.. funny thing about that.. that is like asking Hillary about Obamas better qualities and vice versa.. did a little googling and found that Finra thinks EIA's should only be sold by securities people.. I dont know about you.. but I would not ask my enemies for a letter of reference.. Smile

 

Second.. what is the problem with a company making money? If they make money.. they stay in business? thats a good thing.. I would think.. and the more they make.. the more I make.. at least I hope so.

 

Final thought.. the lady that helps me lives in my community.. she pays taxes.. and has two children of her own in school here. Why is it a bad thing to help support someone who supports our community?

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Second.. what is the problem with a company making money? If they make money.. they stay in business? thats a good thing.. I would think.. and the more they make.. the more I make.. at least I hope so.

 

Final thought.. the lady that helps me lives in my community.. she pays taxes.. and has two children of her own in school here. Why is it a bad thing to help support someone who supports our community?

 

 

 

I think as you become a more sophisticated investor you may answer your own questions from a different perspective. Why would you want to overpay for a product? Are you looking out for the company or do you owe it to yourself to be looking after yourself first?? You are being niave (no disrespect intended) if you think these companies care about you first. You are getting a small dribble back of what these insurance companies are pocketing. What makes you think the more they make the more you make? Its usually the other way around...the more they make the more they make. The only thing that will compel them to lower fees is more folks saying "I won't pay for that" That can come only by your friends empowering themselves

to be knowlegable investors.

 

Is it your business to feel obligated to support that lady? My father in law thinks like you. He feels obligated to overpay for just about everything just because people are nice.

 

Just remember none of these folks will be there when you are old and have not accumulated enough to support yourself. Its in your best interest to develop a healthy dose of cynicism before its too late.

 

 

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Heres a quote

 

 

 

"Once in the dear dead days beyond recall, an out-of-town visitor was being shown the wonders of the New York financial district. When the party arrived at the Battery, one of his guides indicated some handsome ships riding at anchor. "Look, those are the bankers' and brokers' yachts. 'Where are all the customers' yachts?' asked the naïve visitor."

 

from the 1940 book "Where are all the customers' yachts by Fred Schwed"

 

The industry is riddled with ethically challenged people.

 

 

 

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