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"enough" By John Bogle

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Intruder,

You know what I am talking about when it comes to greed and a lot of other issues. You come across so innocent when you are called on it. But what the heck, everybody has an opinion. You brought up some issues to which I already responded. All and all, you defend the status quo not because you are for it or that you make money from it, but because it pushes buttons around here. You like to see us scramble to defend ourselves. What a small world you live in. Remember you are more like us and an indexer too boot.

 

Have a good day ;-)

Steve

 

 

Steve:

 

Unlike you I do not make judgments on whether people are greedy because of how much they are paid which in turn is based upon your personal view of whether you admire them. Is WB greedy because GS is paying him 10% on his $5B investment which comes out to $500,000,000 a year and is about 13 times the $38M the CEO of Lehman was paid last year?

 

Unlike you, only part of my investments are indexed. I have a large portion in cash which is earning 5% in tax exempt money market funds and insured CDs.

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Something is way off here....

 

For those folks who want to engage in "socially responsible" investing on their own, more power to them. But please don't ask pension funds to make political decisions in economic markets.

 

 

Lets carry this a step further....

 

Owning or not owning a company's stock has nothing to do with its ability to make a profit....owning or not owning its products has everything to do with it.

 

"Socially Responsible Investing", in my view, is like religion: It does not require rational or objective thinking and it is not required to respond to the querries of skeptics. It is a matter of faith and/or beliefs that transcend logic. And like religion, SRI sounds good on the surface, but on deeper exploration of what's really going on, it makes absolutely no logical sense.

 

And evil wrongdoers??? If one stood phycially before a million informed investors and held up a placard with the name of ANY company, within minutes, there would be a few screaming voices, clamoring and clawing towards you to tell you how immoral, corrupt and evil this company is, and how no one should invest in it....EVER!

 

As long as SRI remains a faddish clique, that's just fine....individuals may do what they wish with their own money. But they can't control mine....

 

BruceM

 

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As long as SRI remains a faddish clique, that's just fine....individuals may do what they wish with their own money. But they can't control mine....

 

BruceM

 

 

Hi Bruce,

And that goes for management too. Managers will never control my money.

Have a good day,

Steve

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Intruder,

Sorry it took so long to get back to you.

 

 

Steve:

 

Unlike you I do not make judgments on whether people are greedy because of how much they are paid which in turn is based upon your personal view of whether you admire them. Is WB greedy because GS is paying him 10% on his $5B investment which comes out to $500,000,000 a year and is about 13 times the $38M the CEO of Lehman was paid last year?

 

My response: I will never back down on my judgements (or personal opinions) of people when it comes to their relationship with money. WB is not getting rescued from the government and I don't use WB services and I don't own his company stock. However, I admire his connection with Bill Gates in donating his billions for the common good.

 

Let us know if any of those pigs on Wall Street ever think of the common good as WB and Bill Gates. JB looks out for the common investor. Can't you see that simple fact? I happened to think that giving back to the community is a good thing, not just for the community but for the individual too (its a Buddist belief).

 

Unlike you, only part of my investments are indexed. I have a large portion in cash which is earning 5% in tax exempt money market funds and insured CDs.

 

 

My response, are you ready?: Like you, oh my god!, I only have part of my investments indexed and also like you I have about 70% in different bonds (TIPS, GNMA, Total Bond Market index, Cash, Treasury Direct). Since its so important for your image to be different, you should be very happy to know that I don't have insured CDs. But watch out! I am taking a look at them.

 

Have a good day,

Steve

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Hi all,

Here is a short article about socially responsive investing. Historically speaking, just about all new ideas have their well articulated critics. When John Bogle created the first index fund, the S&P 500 back in the dark ages of 1970s, he had plenty of critics and still does, however, he has his place as an investment legend because he dared to do something good for the investor and the greater good.

 

There is nothing wrong with good intentions. The technical aspects of SRIs are problematic, e.g. where do they fit as an asset class in your asset allocation? Are they a sector fund? The individual companies listed in the prospectus are fine, but the subcontractors or the partners they do business won't not qualify as a SRI.

 

Steve

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Something is way off here....

 

For those folks who want to engage in "socially responsible" investing on their own, more power to them. But please don't ask pension funds to make political decisions in economic markets.

 

 

Lets carry this a step further....

 

Owning or not owning a company's stock has nothing to do with its ability to make a profit....owning or not owning its products has everything to do with it.

 

Are you saying that not purchasing their product is more effective than not purchasing their stock?

"Socially Responsible Investing", in my view, is like religion: It does not require rational or objective thinking and it is not required to respond to the querries of skeptics. It is a matter of faith and/or beliefs that transcend logic. And like religion, SRI sounds good on the surface, but on deeper exploration of what's really going on, it makes absolutely no logical sense.

 

I have heard this at the religion point at VG Diehards forum frequently. I guess you don't the good intentions of SSI

And evil wrongdoers??? If one stood phycially before a million informed investors and held up a placard with the name of ANY company, within minutes, there would be a few screaming voices, clamoring and clawing towards you to tell you how immoral, corrupt and evil this company is, and how no one should invest in it....EVER!

 

You are saying that EVERY company there would be some individuals who will say that they are immoral, corrupt and evil? Hardly the criteria of getting into a SSI.

 

As long as SRI remains a faddish clique, that's just fine....individuals may do what they wish with their own money. But they can't control mine....

BruceM

 

 

I am quite confident that Bogles idea of indexing was also called "faddish." Please excuse my ignorance but what is the risk of using SSI in one's portfolio.

 

I have listed mine on another post, sector fund, vague asset class and the good companies might be doing business with unsavvory partners. This is the reason why I don't invest in SSI.

 

Steve

 

 

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