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Having The Wool Pulled Over Your Eyes

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From the NYSUT Benefit Trust Agreement with ING:

 

"We will pay NYSUT Benefit Trust $338,000 per quarter during 2002. This payment will increase in subsequent years, and may include in the future, an asset based component. NYSUT utilizes these amounts to enhance benefits to the participants in programs it sponsors"

___________________________________________________________

How do NYSUT members, that invest in "Opportunity Plus", feel by have their union dues increased in this fashion?

 

Peace,

Joel L. Frank

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From the NYSUT Benefit Trust Agreement with ING:

 

"We will pay NYSUT Benefit Trust $338,000 per quarter during 2002. This payment will increase in subsequent years, and may include in the future, an asset based component. NYSUT utilizes these amounts to enhance benefits to the participants in programs it sponsors"

___________________________________________________________

How do NYSUT members, that invest in "Opportunity Plus", feel by have their union dues increased in this fashion?

 

Peace,

Joel L. Frank

 

Joel, you can repeat the same thing over and over again, and it won't make it any more true. NYSUT, the union, and NYSUT, the Benefit Trust, are two separate entities, and the Benefit Trust is a non-profit. NYSUT cannot commingle dues money with money from the Benefit Trust; if they did so, they would be in violation of law.

 

This is a serious charge, which I have asked you in the past to substantiate and which you have failed to do. This is why you have no credibility, Joel. This fiction about NYSUT, repeated many, many times, remains a fiction.

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Frenchteacher:

 

Here is the written proof that NYSUT benefits directly from its financial agreement with ING: It comes directly from the signed agreement.

 

"NYSUT utilizes these amounts to enhance benefits to the participants in programs it sponsors"

 

If you do not interpret this to mean that the 338k goes into the NYSUT bank account in order "to enhance benefits to the participants in programs NYSUT sponsors" then I have a bridge for you to buy.

 

Joel

 

 

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Frenchteacher:

 

Here is the written proof that NYSUT benefits directly from its financial agreement with ING: It comes directly from the signed agreement.

 

"NYSUT utilizes these amounts to enhance benefits to the participants in programs it sponsors"

 

If you do not interpret this to mean that the 338k goes into the NYSUT bank account in order "to enhance benefits to the participants in programs NYSUT sponsors" then I have a bridge for you to buy.

 

Joel

 

Joel, what I believe or don't believe is inconsequential...you are alleging a serious violation of the law, and as such you should substantiate these charges. What you offer here falls well short of substantiation. You're alleging that the money goes "into the NYSUT bank account." Substantiate, or retract.

 

 

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Joel, what I believe or don't believe is inconsequential...you are alleging a serious violation of the law, and as such you should substantiate these charges. What you offer here falls well short of substantiation. You're alleging that the money goes "into the NYSUT bank account." Substantiate, or retract.

____________________________________________________________

 

Please don't put words in my mouth. If you feel I did not prove that NYSUT controls that $338K then it is up to you to prove who does control that amount of money.

 

Joel no-load Frank

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FrenchTeacher: I have proven to the best of my ability that the 338K goes into the NYSUT bank account. I am not alleging, I am asserting that the $338K goes into the NYSUT bank account. I challenge you prove to us that it goes somewhere else.

 

Joel

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FrenchTeacher: I have proven to the best of my ability that the 338K goes into the NYSUT bank account. I am not alleging, I am asserting that the $338K goes into the NYSUT bank account. I challenge you prove to us that it goes somewhere else.

 

Joel

 

What a great concept: "guilty until proven innocent"!

 

If I said here that TIAA-CREF was leading a childhood slavery ring in Bangladesh, your response would be swift and predictable. First: "I doubt that's true." Second: "If it is true, prove it." And I would fall silent, since I would simply have been blowing air.

 

Joel, YOU are the one alleging wrongdoing. As such, the burden of proof is on YOU. So far, you've fallen well short of that burden. Provide ANY evidence whatsoever that anything you're saying is true, and I'll lead the charge against NYSUT for their misappropriation of funds! But I repeat: if you cannot substantiate these empty claims, you should retract them. Failure to do so is nothing short of slander.

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FrenchTeacher: Please Slowdown...I never said anything about misappropriation of funds or anything like that. Those are your words. Please don't make them mine. If we are now practicing law I would say that the control of the $338K by NYSUT is legal.

 

Now let's get to your position that NYSUT does not receive and control the $338K. I have demonstrated by the following quote that NYSUT does receive and control the 338k:

 

"NYSUT utilizes these amounts to enhance benefits to the participants in programs it sponsors"

 

So if you do not believe that this simple English sentence means that the $338K is deposited in NYSUT's bank account, it behooves you to prove to us that the check is deposited into another entity's bank account.

 

 

 

 

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FrenchTeacher: Please Slowdown...I never said anything about misappropriation of funds or anything like that. Those are your words. Please don't make them mine. If we are now practicing law I would say that the control of the $338K by NYSUT is legal.

 

Now let's get to your position that NYSUT does not receive and control the $338K. I have demonstrated by the following quote that NYSUT does receive and control the 338k:

 

"NYSUT utilizes these amounts to enhance benefits to the participants in programs it sponsors"

 

So if you do not believe that this simple English sentence means that the $338K is deposited in NYSUT's bank account, it behooves you to prove to us that the check is deposited into another entity's bank account.

 

And round and round we go...

 

What you certainly DID say was that this money represents a de facto dues increase by NYSUT. Still waiting on that evidence. Something tells me I'll be waiting a very long time.

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Well I think you do agree so now I will go on and prove that this is simply a defacto dues increase. Assume there was no $338K collected as an endorsement fee from ING and NYSUT wanted to offer its members a program that costs $338k. So they recommend an increase in the dues checkoff equal to $338K. But because they have received an endorsement fee for $338k from the Benefit Trust they do not have to raise the dues in order to pay for the NYSUT program that costs $338K. So rather than being used for investment growth in your Opportunity Plus account you have "donated" that money to your NYSUT. Some use the term that you "gifted" the money to NYSUT or your dues were raised without your approval. Anyway you slice it the Union treasury benefits on your back!

 

In light of the fact that you find my position alarming may I suggest that you ask Mr. Dunn to come to these boards and prove me wrong.

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Well I think you do agree so now I will go on and prove that this is simply a defacto dues increase. Assume there was no $338K collected as an endorsement fee from ING and NYSUT wanted to offer its members a program that costs $338k. So they recommend an increase in the dues checkoff equal to $338K. But because they have received an endorsement fee for $338k from the Benefit Trust they do not have to raise the dues in order to pay for the NYSUT program that costs $338K. So rather than being used for investment growth in your Opportunity Plus account you have "donated" that money to your NYSUT. Some use the term that you "gifted" the money to NYSUT or your dues were raised without your approval. Anyway you slice it the Union treasury benefits on your back!

 

In light of the fact that you find my position alarming may I suggest that you ask Mr. Dunn to come to these boards and prove me wrong.

 

This is an outstanding exchange...the best comedy writers in the world couldn't make this stuff up.

 

Joel: Do you agree that NYSUT controls the money?

 

Me: No, I do not. (DIRECT QUOTE!!!)

 

Joel: Well I think you do agree...

 

I damn near spit my drink on the computer, I was laughing so hard after that...I haven't even read all the other garbage that follows, because like 85% of everything else that you write, IT'S PREDICATED ON A COMPLETELY FALSE ASSUMPTION! I mean, geez, Joel...if you're just going to set up a "straw man" argument, why not write both sides of the dialogue and falsely quote me? Oh, wait, you've done that...never mind.

 

And then the conclusion..."in light of the fact that you find my position alarming"...sorry to disappoint you, Joel, but I can't stop laughing long enough to be alarmed. (I shouldn't have written that...undoubtedly I'll be quoted as saying, "I...[am] alarmed.")

 

Seriously Joel, either engage in a respectable, responsible debate, or don't bother contributing anything at all. Everyone else I've read on this board has backed up their opinions with facts, while you can't get past this wild notion that NYSUT is commingling union dues with Benefit Trust money, an allegation that remains entirely without proof.

 

 

 

 

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