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holycow

403B Loans - Voya And The Undeliverable Address

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Background

My wife's employer has chosen to move to another financial company for employee 403b account management, basically giving Voya the boot. Over the course of the following year, we were barraged with what Voya accounts could and couldn't be moved to her new 403b provider. We have (2) accounts that were not eligible to be moved.

 

Issue - Missing Quarterly Payment

After calling Voya to inquire about the missing payment notice, my wife was told our home mailing address had been marked undeliverable and that the quarterly payment was not mailed because of this. Also, all mailing to our address has been stopped. During the entire 1st quarter of this year speaking with Voya, never was our address verified or were we informed that in hard been marked as undeliverable. We have mail from Voya from February for the rollover information. I don't understand why only SOME of the mail was undeliverable.

 

Lesson Learned

After a few calls with the help desk at Voya, we were finally escalated far enough up the chain to have the following information revealed by Voya.

It is not Voya's problem if you fail to receive their mailings and they assume that the customer will call (eventually) and validate their current mailing address.

You should not assume that you will be contacted in any other way than your mailing address with Voya.

 

Voya will NEVER call, email, send smoke signals, nadda. zilch...

 

I was told by many CSAs that Voya does not have the resources to currently entertain these avenues and that their customers will eventually call.

 

Do not expect common courtesy on Voya's behalf like Visa, Mastercard, or Comcast for a missed payment or reaching out to contact you using another method than your mailing address. A single missed payment results in a defaulted loan and there is no recourse.

 

Voya's Flawed Logic

So, I just ran down this logic path that Voya uses with a few CSAs at Voya...

 

Q. What happened to my mail?

1. Mailing Address is marked undeliverable in Voya’s system, all mail stops.

2. Grace Period Letter is not mailed, since the mailing address is undeliverable.

3. Default Notice Letter is not mailed, since the mailing address is undeliverable.

4. 1099R ??? hopefully mailed, but probably not - since the mailing address is undeliverable.

 

A. Don’t have anything to do with Voya!

 

Take Away

Voya doesn't care about you.

Don't expect the local account rep. to help.

There is nothing record or noted in Voya's System that would indicate why YOUR mail was marked undeliverable.

Side note, I was also told by one CSA that they could not process the shear amount of mail that Voya receives on a daily basis. So, I don't understand how our mailing address was ever marked undeliverable. What told them that our mailing address was undeliverable?

 

I hope that this info finds its way to folks that were affected by any of the current natural disasters.

It is up to YOU, the customer, to ensure that Voya can always mail you.

 

Do yourself a favor and investment your hard-earned money with someone that cares about you.

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Tony -

Thanks for the link, I also found that link in my anger rage while holding for CSAs at Voya.

As I was told by the recording while on hold for countless minutes, that Voya....

 

2017 World's Most Ethical Companies® by the Ethisphere Institute, a global leader in defining and advancing the standards of ethical business practices. This is the fourth consecutive year that Voya earned this honor.

 

What a joke!

 

I did stumble upon this little nugget at the IRS, but Voya doesn't have a cure period - imagine that.

 

https://www.irs.gov/retirement-plans/403b-plan-fix-it-guide-you-havent-limited-loan-amounts-and-enforced-repayments-as-required-under-irc-section-72p

How to find the mistake:

Review loan agreements and repayments to verify loans have met the rules to keep the law from treating them as taxable distributions. The added complexity of attempting to coordinate a large number of vendors greatly enhances the chances for error. You may want to take these steps to find mistakes in your loan program administration:

  • Review the loan requirements outlined in the written program (including, if necessary, the participant loan provisions in underlying vendor documents).
  • Review each participant loan agreement and determine if each loan was made following the rules of IRC Section 72(p).
    • Is each loan evidenced by a written loan agreement?
    • Is the loan amount within the $50,000/50% of the account balance limit?
    • Are participants required to repay loans within 5 years?
    • For each loan in excess of 5 years, is there documentation to indicate the participant used the loan to purchase his or her primary residence?
    • Does the repayment schedule require the participant to make level payments of principal and interest at least quarterly? Are the level amortization amounts properly calculated?
    • For each loan, determine that participants are timely making loan payments.
      • Does the plan allow for a “cure period” that provides a period of time for participants to make missed payments?
        • If the plan doesn’t provide for a cure period, one missed payment could put the loan into default.
        • If the plan provides for a cure period, the loan is in default if the participant hasn’t made payments before the end of the calendar quarter following the calendar quarter in which the participant missed the payment.

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Just because they earned an honor or award means nothing. Sometimes companies finagle or pay to be included on these lists.

Listen to the customers like you I say and you will find out the truth. Its sad you had to be treated this way. I have some bad experiences early too with some companies and yup they bragged about being recognized through awards too. Its all marketing .

 

To be fair, you are the first person I can remember posting here about unhappiness with Voya but the comments on the consumer site are highly negative. Could this simply be the result of a glitch ? How did you feel about them otherwise? I find it hard to believe they would not be willing to help you out and work with you on this matter.

 

Holycow, Please continue to participate in this forum. We work together here trying to keep others safe from this kind of stuff.

 

If any poster or lurker has had either positive or negative experiences with Voya please share your experiences here

 

Tony

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As frustrating as it may have been to play these bureaucratic games about mailing addresses...Voya's core business, their regular operating procedure, is to take advantage of investors. That is what the company is founded on; this is the way it subsists.

 

I don't have the actual data at my finger tips but here at OCPS (FL) Voya offers a glorified savings account returning somewhere around 2% per year (maybe slightly less). I believe they also charge massive surrender fees. This is an absolute disaster for a typical investor and I'd argue even an incredibly risk averse investor would do better, long term, with a 100% bond portfolio.

 

Moral of the story, stay way from Voya (at least in OCPS (FL) but probably everywhere).

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So, the nearly impossible actually happened and I credit 403bwise and it’s followers for the help resolving this issue. Please read on…

 

After receiving a call from Voya a few weeks back stating that Voya would allow a "one time" catch up and un-default the loan if we paid for the missed payment and the currently due payment. For me, it was a no-brainer and a small gamble compared to the looming 1099R bill that would be issued for this year.

 

Fast forward and a few weeks pass, we don't hear a thing from Voya, so we called last night. In what has to be the shortest and most pleasant call that I have every had with Voya - we were told that the loan default was reversed and the loan was now in good standing. The icing on the cake was the CSR also said that NO 1099R would be issued!

 

This confirmed everything that I was told a few weeks prior, I also asked to have this MAILED to me as I had asked on the last call from Voya.

 

So, I think that this story ends on a happy note.

 

Just for my sanity and what spawned this whole mess, we also confirmed our address because our last online statement still shows Undeliverable as Addressed. The CSR did confirm that our address is correct an that the payment reminder will be able to make its way to us. To put another spin on the whole fiasco, Voya is changing the address in which the payment has to be mailed to. It was so appropriate that we received this little treat in the mail yesterday, perfect timing!

 

I truly believe that ARK works!

One Act, of, Random, Kindness.

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