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tony

She Hasn't Had A Savings Account In 9 Years

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Steve mentioned in a post recently that most teachers can't save much these days in 403b's or choose not to. This article spells out the plight teachers are facing across the country.  It's very real .  However,  while I don't mean to appear unsympathetic  some of these teachers are making more than I ever did at their age. I get it that perhaps this is a different time but I wonder how much of this stems from millennials not having learned to live within their means and a general lack of financial finesse and literacy.  It's not how much you make necessarily it's how much you keep and that may mean making more of a sacrifice than many today (I have noticed)are willing to make.. I had friend teachers who complained daily about not making enough money  and who were unable to save a penny but were spending  up to 15$- $20.00 dollars a day on breakfast and lunch treats and coffee drinks. On top of that they talked about all the dinners out they were eating. Those are the kind of things I gave up plus I worked two jobs for a while.The fact millennials are returning to night class to learn basic skills indicates to me that our school system is failing our students in essential learning like personal finance. So while teachers are underpaid certainly, personal habits matter. Most folks in 9-5 non state jobs are envious of the pensions and days off teachers have. The grass sometimes does seem greener on the other side.

 

https://www.cnn.com/2019/02/10/us/denver-teacher-strike-multiple-jobs/index.html

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1 hour ago, tony said:

some of these teachers are making more than I ever did at their age

Adjusted for inflation?

1 hour ago, tony said:

15$- $20.00 dollars a day on breakfast and lunch treats and coffee drinks. On top of that they talked about all the dinners out 

I support minimalism but...

I never cook and I spend roughly 4.5k on food per year. I don’t think saving an extra 2k per year is going to make or break anything.

I do not think Gen or older generations were any better with finances than millennials. However older generations certainly had access to cheaper education and depending on how old we’re talking about, they worked when wages hadn’t yet stagnated.

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When I taught personal finance I told the students that the little stuff adds up and it does.  I think it is much more than 2k a year if you add dinner. I get a  much higher yearly figure.

Folks can cook and pack lunches but they don't want to.They can walk or bike or carpool or take public transport but instead I saw many BMW's in the  teacher parking lot and many late model cars. Its a choice and I don't criticize that decision but it does make a difference on finances. My immigrant parents taught me in the ways of making a penny go twice as far. When teacher are demanding a few hundred extra in pay per months, that's not too much to ask but if they don't use that raise correctly they won't be moving forward. BTW I did not mean to pick on millennials as plenty of older generations (and younger ones)suffer from this blindspot.  I get it that kids are strapped with College debt and that's awful but many young people don't have that debt. I find many folks today don't believe in sacrifice and in delaying gratification  and this is hurting them moving up in the world financially.  From my experiences with teaching young people, all I have just said is a real problem .  Just my two cents.

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11 minutes ago, tony said:

I think it is much more than 2k a year if you add dinner

I know I spend 4.5k per year on food for every meal and I suspect I’d have trouble saving more than 2k if I were to cook every meal myself.

You know I am a huge proponent of minimalism so everything you’re saying has value. Any discussion I have with an individual would include this message of personal responsibility because it is all they can control.

However, I’ve see the data for income distribution. What we have here is fundamentally a structural problem that cannot be solved by individuals cutting spending. In fact, I wonder how much worse things would get if they all collectively cut spending.

So I can’t spend much energy going after individuals’ decisions when it is the structure causing most of the issues.

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ED,

My math sucks but I was making $16,000 a year 30 years ago in my first year of teaching. I believe new teachers in my district are starting out  now at about $48,000  $44,500 but with coaching or taking on additional duties the pay can hit almost $50,000. Perhaps they have lost some ground but you will have to do the math. I'm aware pay varies by state and city . I am also aware some teachers are woefully underpaid . But teachers always get summers off and can logically work then too. It's not a bad gig.

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16k in 1988 is equivalent to 34k in 2018 according to the first inflation calculator google sent me to.

Teachers here in Orange County (Fl) start at 40k now, which is absolutely enough for a dignified existence. You should be able to save for retirement on that salary.

I’d be interested to look over data on how teacher salaries have changed over time (adjusting for inflation). Since the financial collapse I feel like I’ve heard a lot about frozen salaries...but I don’t really know since I’ve never studied it. 

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Salaries were frozen during that recession time and pension plans were changed with teachers have to pay more into it. I escaped that. No question things have changed. In Virginia it all depends on the governor and general assembly budget. I believe our current government has a 4% raise for teachers this year.   Over my experience we've had bad years and good years when it comes to raises but during those rough years our local school district gave teachers some backdoor raises through bonuses and other benefits like picking up a larger share of medical insurance. I guess it all depends on the support a district gives to education and the overall budget scenario. Still blue collar workers have little sympathy for teachers complaining about their situation when many workers in our society have it worse than teachers. Dave Ramsey was on the radio and he made a statement to a caller that regardless of profession and monetary circumstance a strong passion towards getting ahead makes it happen every time.

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Also I think the current crop of democrats are going to turn me into a republican if they keep it up. I’ve read the Green Deal, and I am concerned. Specifically, I was struck by the passage that promised “economic security for anyone  UNWILLING to work.” 

That sentiment is the antithesis of the American dream

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43 minutes ago, tony said:

I’ve read the Green Deal, and I am concerned. Specifically, I was struck by the passage that promised “economic security for anyone  UNWILLING to work.” 

That sentiment is the antithesis of the American dream

Tony, I think you may have been bamboozled by Fox News or a similar partisan source.  Best I'm able to decipher, something -- a now-deleted blog post or a "fact sheet," depending on the account  -- was "posted" or "sent out" before the "Green" resolution went public, which contained the "unable or unwilling to work" line.  It still isn't clear to me who wrote it or authorized it, but more to the point, if you read the actual "Green Deal," you saw no such language.  The document was submitted to Congress and is easy to find and read online.  https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/house-resolution/109/text

There is plenty to criticize: naive idealism (maybe one could say grandiosity) in calling for "prosperity and economic security for all people of the United States," or the head-scratching demand to "upgrad[e] all existing buildings in the United States,"  but the antithesis of the American Dream?   Seems to me that dreaming about what a just society or a good government ought to be is a characteristically American activity.  As a teacher, I've known many a student whose exuberant idealism exceeded their grasp of practical reality; I hear echos of them in that document, a sign of great ambition, not shirking work.

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Thanks Whyme Gosh I hate to spread falsehoods.

 I wonder if it was in the original draft and subsequently removed or fake news?  Or Politics? What are we becoming????I didn't actually read the whole thing I read excerpts from it and it was disturbing. Naive Idealism to use your own words is a good way to define it.If it was represented falsely than I apologize and will review your document link. I did not get it from Fox news however but it was an online source on Apple news but I can't remember where exactly . I'm going to go to snopes.com to get the truth. I have no interest in reading the whole thing actually.  Fake news is everywhere these days and I may have fallen for it. I will check it out.  Thanks again.

 

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Whyme is correct, the resolution submitted to Congress does not have language about people unwilling to work. It isn’t clear to me if it was in an initial draft or not. It is also worth noting this is a non-binding resolution, not a law. It is more of a statement of ideals and goals.

However, if you’re willing to explore ideas you may not initially feel comfortable with then we can have an interesting discussion. A universal basic income would have the government cut everybody a check, giving economic security to EVERYBODY.

Very serious people from diverse backgrounds like Thomas Paine, Milton Friedman (libertarian Nobel laureate), Dr. King, etc have all supported UBI. Experiments with the UBI have been conducted around the world (Finland just got some new data on it that I’m planning to read soon).

Conservatives like it because it can replace hundreds of social safety net programs. That reduces government bureaucracy and the paternalistic nature of telling people exactly what to spend the money on. It gives individuals more control to decide what is best for them.

Technologists like it because we believe there is a very real possibility that AI and automation will continue to put more and more people out of work and if we don’t build some kind of bridge to a new economic system then we will all be in trouble. We also believe that the long term goal for humanity should be to be happy and pursue whatever interests us even if it isn’t profitable.

Liberals like it for obvious reasons, it could eradicate poverty.

One of the biggest fears is that people will simply stop working, but in the experiments that have been done, the only reduction in work is due to people going to school. When we think about many of the greatest scientific contributions we depend on as a species...they came from very wealthy people who had no economic reason to do the work, but they had the leisure and the interest to pursue it. One of the biggest things that bothers me is thinking about how many geniuses were smothered by poverty, never able to think about more than survival and we all missed out on whatever breakthrough they would have contributed to humanity.

...I could keep going and going, but we will see what your level of interest is. 

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Thanks Ed

Its sounds too utopian, idealistic, and unrealistic if not impossible to achieve.  I realize it's not law . 

I better read the facts before I comment further. Or maybe we better just stick to 403b issues:)

 

 

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 Just looked over the link. Yea I must have read someone's interpretation of the Green Deal because if that's the real document it doesn't sound as bad as it was made out to be from what I read.  I wasn't interested in reading the whole document because i assumed  it would be treacherously long as is often the case with government documents. This wasn't as bad.  I still think its a good vision but highly unrealistic considering human nature and politics.

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There may or may not be some level of truth in the “unwilling to work” thing (perhaps in an early draft), I don’t know.

What I do know is that the right has an obsession with AOC and love to criticize her without engaging in the substance of her policies. It’s actually interesting to listen to them refer to her as fringe because many of her policies have majority support among the population.

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LOL Could not find any comments about the  origin of security for/unwillingness to work wording of the green deal instead I found this on snopes.com

Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez has experienced two "sheriff evictions," two closed checking accounts, and a credit score of 430. Snopes says it's false. Goes to show how much fake news is floating around out there.

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