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From 403b To 401k Plan

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Guest TR1982

YOU stop the spin and personal attacks. I think it's fine if you want to criticize products, etc. STOP GENERALIZING ABOUT PEOPLE.

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Guest Sierra
Fine, Now please show us where my post is different than Danc's.

 

Joel

When you get a chance please respond.

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Guest Sierra

 

 

 

Danc Said:

 

Forget about service - it is not going to happen; an agent was paid a front-end sales commission by the carrier to sell the case. The incentive structure is designed to distribute product. (And this is the case whether or not there are no or front or back end loads on the funds!) The high expenses are just the mechanism by which the carrier recovers what it has fronted to the agent.

 

Joel responded by saying:

 

Encore, Encore, Dan! It is simply amazing how the commissioned agent has used the term "service" as a code word to mean that you get something less than "service" if you use no-loads. That is the bait to suck you in. The commissioned agent is being paid to distribute product not service (educate/advise/guide) old cases. There is only so many working hours in the day---so if you were a commissioned agent would you be "servicing" or distributing product? You can't make a living with just the residuals of old business! You must be constantly talking to prospects and referrals because that is where the money is------"follow the money" and if you don't you will not meet your quota and you will be fired.

 

TR responded to Joel (not Danc) by saying:

 

What a joke. I love hearing this kind of drivel from people who have never worked in the business. Since when did you decide how many customers an advisor can service? Have you polled my customers to see if they are satisfied with my services? If 90% of my customers are satisfied with my service, then how can you say this? This is the problem I have with guys like you on this thread: you don't like salespeople. That's fine. I've never been particularly been enamored of guys like you. I don't, however, go around crticizing how you do your job since I have no idea how what you do. Why do you seem to think that you can speak to how I do my job? This will degenerate into more ad hominem attacks.

 

Joel now asks TR:

 

Why did you take this SO personally when your name and the work you do is not even mentioned by me? Poll your customers? Where did I speak "to how you do your job"? Please give us a break! With all due respect your reaction to my post was not responsive to my position that an agent gets paid to distribute product not to service. I simply furnished my reaction to Danc's post. But I recognized that you were offended so I specifically said to you: Fine, Now please show us where my post is different than Danc's. You have yet to respond. TR: Should I now be offended?

 

Peace and Hope,

Joel

 

 

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Guest TR1982

OK Joel,

 

"Encore, Encore, Dan! It is simply amazing how the commissioned agent has used the term "service" as a code word to mean that you get something less than "service" if you use no-loads. HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT?

 

That is the bait to suck you in. HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT?

 

The commissioned agent is being paid to distribute product not service (educate/advise/guide) old cases. HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT?

 

There is only so many working hours in the day---so if you were a commissioned agent would you be "servicing" or distributing product? You can't make a living with just the residuals of old business! HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT?

 

You must be constantly talking to prospects and referrals because that is where the money is------"follow the money" and if you don't you will not meet your quota and you will be fired. HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT?

 

My point is this: If you haven't worked in a firm like this, how can speak so authoritatively to these assertions? The answer is: You can't! I just get sick of people like you acting like they are experts on my motives and work behavior when they've never done my job!

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Guest Sierra

My point is this: If you haven't worked in a firm like this, how can speak so authoritatively to these assertions? The answer is: You can't! I just get sick of people like you acting like they are experts on my motives and work behavior when they've never done my job!

================================================

 

TR: Why do you continue to accuse me of attacking your motives and work behavior when I have just finished telling you I had no such intention?

 

TR, I simply asked you to show us where my post differs from Danc's assertions. Will you do that for us?

 

Joel

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Guest TR1982

Joel,

 

"Forget about service - it is not going to happen; an agent was paid a front-end sales commission by the carrier to sell the case. The incentive structure is designed to distribute product. (And this is the case whether or not there are no or front or back end loads on the funds!) The high expenses are just the mechanism by which the carrier recovers what it has fronted to the agent."

 

You added quite a bit of hyperbole and innuendo to your follow up of this. I have no problem with what he said. He discussed the product design and the flaw he sees with it. That's fine. You went far beyond that.

 

I am willing to let this go. Can we please move on? I don't think anyone is getting anything from this.

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Guest Sierra
Joel,

 

"Forget about service - it is not going to happen; an agent was paid a front-end sales commission by the carrier to sell the case. The incentive structure is designed to distribute product. (And this is the case whether or not there are no or front or back end loads on the funds!) The high expenses are just the mechanism by which the carrier recovers what it has fronted to the agent."

 

You added quite a bit of hyperbole and innuendo to your follow up of this. I have no problem with what he said. He discussed the product design and the flaw he sees with it. That's fine. You went far beyond that.

 

I am willing to let this go. Can we please move on? I don't think anyone is getting anything from this.

Not so fast.

 

"Forget about service - it is not going to happen;..." Why don't you challenge Danc to the same extent you challenged me: Ask him "HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT? HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT? and let's see "how danc knows that"

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Guest TR1982

OK, fine. BTW, that may have been what he did, so shame on him! That doesn't mean everyone else does it the same way.

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Guest Sierra

He said it because he is a student of the product. And the product does not provide for service. Its that simple!

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Guest TR1982

That is so silly. What investment product provides for service? It is the advisor that provides the service.

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That is so silly. What investment product provides for service? It is the advisor that provides the service.

No, no, silly. The advisor NEVER provides service. He only distributes product and cashes that commission check for which he does no work. Repeat that mantra.

 

Forget that you are an advisor who provides service, and I am a client who receives service from my advisor. We're obviously both just imagining things.

 

 

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Guest Sierra
That is so silly.  What investment product provides for service?  It is the advisor that provides the service.

No, no, silly. The advisor NEVER provides service. He only distributes product and cashes that commission check for which he does no work. Repeat that mantra.

 

Forget that you are an advisor who provides service, and I am a client who receives service from my advisor. We're obviously both just imagining things.

To our two Mr "Sillys": Of course it is a human being that provides the service. And Danc and I have asserted that when it comes to "service" "its not going to happen".

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