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obmij

90-24 Transfers

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I was told by a friend that if I didn't like my investment options, that I could transfer my contributions to another plan. I got the forms to so on line from VALIC and then to them to HR but was told our plan wouldn't allow it. They then gave me a copy of the plan, but I don't see anything that says I can't.

Can my employer stop me from transfering to another 403b?

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Guest TR1982

ScottyD has it right. The employer can allow 90-24 transfers if they want, but they are not required to allow them. This usually comes into play when an employer wants to restrict transfers from a vendor they approve to a vendor they have not approved, particularly when the employee is still in service. Once the employee has terminated, I doubt the employer would care. This is not common, but not unusual.

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obmij,

Call the company you want your money to go to and let them do all the work. Transfers between 403b companies are done all the time and are relatively easy. Just watch out for possible surrender fees from those horrible VAs and fixed annuity contracts.

I have transferred money from several companies including annuities to a lower fee company such as Vanguard, TIAA CREF and fidelity.

Hope this helps,

Steve

PS If your employer is contributing a match to your 403b than all bets on transfers are off.

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Guest TR1982

obmij,

If your HR dept gave you a copy of your plan, then you get can bet for sure that it is not allowed. 95% of 403b plans do not have plan documents so any that do probably have language in them prohibiting 90-24 transfers until you meet a distributable event. Sending paperwork from another vendor will not change that and is a waste of your time. Your HR dept would be the final arbiter on that issue.

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TR1982,

What I suggested to obmij about calling the company and letting them handle the transfer is done all the time. It is NOT a waste of time. I resent you sticking your nose between the poster and myself. The poster asked a good question and doesn't need you telling him that what I said, or what anybody else said, is a waste of time. If you have something to say about the topic, say it.

Steve

 

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Guest TR1982

sschullo,

If an employer has a plan document and it prohibits 90-24 transfers, then some vendor sending them paperwork isn't going to magically change that. In fact, if a 90-24 transfer occurred, it would be a violation of the plan rules and could jeopardize the plan.

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TR1982,

IF the employer has a plan document, you are right, but we don't know that and until the poster says so one way or the other. What I don't like about your message is that it reflects one of the major problems with information given to people in 403bs. Let me repeat, transfers are important around here because it allows people to get out of horrible product and into a lower cost product. I have never heard of the opposite.

But what I have heard was the same thing for years that I could not transfer my money, but I could. I got the correct information from a non sales person. This why sales people and district HR departments get such a bad rap around here. Lets wait until we get all the information from the poster before we say what he cannot do.

Steve

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Guest TR1982

sschullo,

 

This what you said to me:

 

"IF the employer has a plan document, you are right, but we don't know that and until the poster says so one way or the other."

 

This is what obmji said in his post:

 

"I was told by a friend that if I didn't like my investment options, that I could transfer my contributions to another plan. I got the forms to so on line from VALIC and then to them to HR but was told our plan wouldn't allow it. They then gave me a copy of the plan, but I don't see anything that says I can't.

Can my employer stop me from transfering to another 403b?"

 

He went to his HR dept and they gave him a copy of the plan and said that 90-24 transfers were not allowed. I am willing to concede that the HR person may not be an expert and may be wrong. What I don't understand is how his friend or anyone else (including other vendors) can speak to this issue when there is a written document maintained by the employer. They do not have access to this document and therefore cannot say whether this transfer would be allowed or not. It would seem reasonable to me that if an employer has something in writing that says this transfer is not allowed, then that is a reasonable assumption to make.

 

You suggest that I am jumping ahead on this. I am astounded that you would say this. He clearly states that he was given something in writing and you clearly acknowledge that he if was given the plan in writing it would be correct.

 

I also think that your suggestion and position on this is driven by your own biases. You think that what he has is "horrible" and high cost. How do you know this? Has he revealed to you the specific product he is invested in and it's cost structure? Why don't you find out what that is before you so quickly recommend that he transfer his assets? How do you know that he is able and willing to make his own investment choices?

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TR1982,

You say you are "astonished" by my interpretation of the poster's problem and that my position is driven by my biases. Well, my friend, you haven't seen anything yet. Frankly, I could care less what you think about my interpretation. I am answering the poster's questions and I will continue to do so based on my experience. Instead of second-guessing what people say, especially those who oppose your views, why don't you just answer the question. What the 403b world needs is a little more bias from us humble teachers. That's what makes this website and the information provided viable, objective and balanced.

Have a good day,

Steve

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Guest TR1982

sschullo,

 

Based on your response, it's clear that your suggestions are based on your biases. I don't care either. Just stop condemning others who act the same way as you do. I get sick and tired of your blanket condemnations of people and products in this business. Who made you the god of 403b plans? Who set you up as the enforcer of 403b wrongs? You seem to relish the opportunity to tell other people what not to do. Fine. I was doing the same thing. Just remember, what's good for the goose is good for the gander.

 

BTW, there is nothing objective, or balanced about this website!

 

 

And you have a nice day as well.

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BTW, there is nothing objective, or balanced about this website!

 

 

I would quibble with this, as much as I share a lot of the frustration you're expressing here. There is nothing objective or balanced about the DISCUSSION part of this website, which is dominated by people with a no-load agenda. But the website as a whole takes great pains to present things with a fair degree of objectivity. Dan Otter can surely speak for himself here, as well as provide the necessary links, but there are spots on the site that expound on the virtues of using agents where needed.

 

The general tone of the site, I think, is that people who are motivated to do so can educate themselves about retirement savings to a strong enough degree that they will not need the use of the agents. What SOME people on this site fail to acknowledge is that a huge segment of the teaching population is simply unwilling (not unable) to do so, and as such GOOD agents provide valuable services. It's always tempting (as it is with doctors, lawyers, politicians, etc.) to take the anger created by the "bad apples" and fling it carelessly at the entire profession. Sadly, the discussion board here wallows in that far too often. The website as a whole, though, avoids that, and for that, Dan should get kudos.

 

TR, I hope you stick around and continue to post. If you really want this board to strive for a sense of balance, you should keep coming here and continue to help provide it. I genuinely appreciate all posters, including yourself, that are willing to give a level-headed look at both sides of the equation.

 

 

 

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Guest TR1982

FT,

 

I enjoy (to some degree) posting here because it can be intellectually stimulating and there are people who come here genuinely looking for help. I also appreciate your comments to me.

 

I must take issue with you about this site being objective and balanced. I have communicated with Dan Otter and he seems like a good guy. The problem here, though, is that most of the people who post here, including Dan, come at the issue of 403b plans with a huge bias. They think annuities are bad, bad, bad. They think annuities are a ripoff. I don't care that they feel this way and I don't always disagree with them on some issues about this. But look at the 403b must reads section. There are 14 articles posted there. 7 of those articles are either extremely negative or somewhat negative about annuities or annuity companies. Now, maybe I'm missing something, but that ain't fair and balanced.

 

Most of the people I know in this business who are familiar with this site know that it is an annuity bashing site. Historically, there has never been any attempt to fairly represent the other side of this issue. If you look at the firms who advertise here, that speaks volumes. They either compete with annuities or bash them. Why would anyone who has a different point of view want to come here?

 

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