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detailgal

Vanguard, Service And Fiduciary Responsibility

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TR

There you go again with the personal attacks. Someday you will learn to be civil around here and have a sense of humor like FT, whom I totally disagree with too. We talk about all options in 403b but you can't tolerate something a little different and a little more OPEN and transparent from your standard TSA sales pitch. You lost it buddy.

 

Let me remind you because you need to be reminded, that it was Barrons (One of the supreme capitalist magazines around), not little me, who published that many investors are opting for "A no-load shop with a heavy dose of index funds, Vanguard has done superbly by targeting direct investors who eschew intermediaries, such as brokers and financial advisers." I just happen to agree with Barrons 100%. Barrons is my new hero. I don't think a communist would say something like that about Barrons. I read about options and I learn again and again that costs matter and the "intermediary" costs investers money.

 

Let me just end this discussion with you: lets agree to disagree. You and I will NEVER agree on 403b. You don't and never will understand 403b from a consumer POV, the value of indexing, nor do you talk about diversification, rebalancing, learning something new, the value of making mistakes, living frugally, and most importantly you are absolutely wrong, wrong and wrong again when you say performance is more important than costs in investments.

Steve

 

 

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Guest TR1982

Steve,

You are so funny. Can't take a joke either. Hate to break it to you, I use Vanguard in my fee based accounts with clients. Shocking, isn't it? I don't really care how you feel about 403b plans for yourself. What I can't stand is how you think that what you want and need is what everyone else wants. I suppose you think everyone should teach the way you teach, think the way you think, dress the way you dress, eat what you eat, drive the same kind of car you drive, etc. Why can't you let the rest of the world be who they are without condemning them? While you think you are always right and never make a mistake, the rest of us are happy to be ignorant of your perfection and live with our imperfection. I realize that I'm not going to change your mind, that's not my objective. I just want to give people another legitimate point of view. Have a nice day (a sunny one, I hope).

 

By the way, since when do you talk about all options in the 403b? I have never come across anyone so virulently opposed to anything but no load funds in the 403b as you. Please let me know if you are open to other options. So far, I've seen no evidence of that.

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TR

I have never said that I talk about all options. I give credit to this wonderful website. I have said before and will say it again, I am very biased for no loads and low fee companies. But so are a lot of folks for obvious reasons, just read Barrons and I suggest you read it thoroughly.

 

I have also said that I have made many mistakes in investing. But you know something else, all this talk is really very boring. You are much better at the personal issue than I. Lets get to the issue that concerns readers and that’s a good 403b plan.

 

Its not shocking news that you use Vanguard for your fee based accounts. Heck, AIG which owns Valic has Vanguard for their employees' 401K plan. Vanguard is that good! I am sure you know this because it used to be an industry secret. You’re only admitting this to point out some kind of credibility gap on my part. Guess what? I have no credibility to defend. I just say what's on my mind about investments from a consumer point of view. It’s not pretty, clever, nor that smart. Heck, I am just a former Wisconsin farm kid who flunked the second grade.

 

Regarding your points about the other option you want to give. The problem is that your information is what the other 99.9% of all educators who seek 403b plans get right now at their union halls and school cafeterias. You need to find new material. We have heard your pitch before. We know that its not the big picture. You have a perfect right to post your opinions but almost all of the pros provide incomplete or misleading information. Our job is to give the readers the whole picture. That's what I mean that all options are available. Readers can decide what is best. If they want to throw their money away on high fee companies after reading what we have to say here, then its none of my business.

Steve

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Guest TR1982

Steve,

 

You said:

 

"We talk about all options in 403b but you can't tolerate something a little different and a little more OPEN and transparent from your standard TSA sales pitch. You lost it buddy."

 

"I have never said that I talk about all options. I give credit to this wonderful website."

 

Now, I guess I'm blind but that's what you said in back to back posts.

 

I don't care what your opinion is, Steve. What I care about is the fact that you think your opinion is the only RIGHT opinion and that if I disagree with you, that I am wrong, wrong, wrong! Maybe I am wrong. Why do you care? If you are right, then let the weight of your argument convince people instead of denigrating other points of view. It seems to me that people who spend their time attacking the other point of view must not have a strong argument.

 

"Its not shocking news that you use Vanguard for your fee based accounts. Heck, AIG which owns Valic has Vanguard for their employees' 401K plan. I am sure you know this because it used to be an industry secret."

 

Since when is the fact that AIG uses Vanguard for their 401k an industry secret? Any one who wants to know could go to the DOL 5500 filings and the information is there plain as day. Plus, I hardly think that information such as this which is distributed to more than 90,000 employees worldwide would qualify as an "industry secret".

 

Finally, if you'd bother to check, you would know that Valic uses several Vanguard funds in their VA. Has it ever occured to you that Vanguard doesn't seem to be bothered by the fact that their mutual funds are being offered by one of the largest providers of VA's in 403b plans? Or that Valic is one of their largest customers? Heaven forbid! What is the world coming to?

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TR,

Its starting to look like an FT and Sierra dance. :-)

"We talk about all options...." "We" means the website which includes you, my friend.

Of course you care about my opinion because its a pretty good idea, teachers educated in personal financies for starters....is a damn strong argument and the right one IMHO.

Oh sure, the cat is out of the bag now about Vanguard being used by AIG. But I wonder how many educators know that little fact.

I know that many insurance carriers use Vanguard, I am supprised that most don't because Vanguard charges only .12% (institutional rate) therefore the insurance company would make even more money from teachers!

Steve

 

 

 

 

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Guest TR1982

I'm not sure I would characterize Vanguard as being "used" by AIG. My guess is that Vanguard is crying all the way to the bank on that one.

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I just happen to agree with Barrons 100%. Barrons is my new hero. I don't think a communist would say something like that about Barrons. I read about options and I learn again and again that costs matter and the "intermediary" costs investers money.

 

 

Hi Steve,

 

In light of your newfound admiration of Barron's, are you going to reconsider their findings in this article too?

 

http://bwise.ibforums.com/index.php?act=ST&f=2&t=704&hl=barron

 

Hee hee...didn't think so, but just thought I'd ask. :-)

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