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Contest To Be Measured Each Quarter

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"Ira, M* does not automatically add shares that result from splits/dividends/capital gains. We will need a way to accomodate those changes, best done at year end usually..Dan"

 

I wonder what the source will be to accommodate those changes? Now newpapers publish percent changes on funds each quarter. That will be rough, hopefully there is a better way?

 

Ira

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Fidelity Spartan Total Market Index (FSTMX) $11,500

 

Fidelity Spartan Ext Market Index (FSEMX) 11,500

 

Vanguard Total Int Stk Market Index(VGTSX) 8,000

 

Vanguard REIT Index (VGSIX) 2,000

 

Vanguard Short Term Invest Grade(VFSTX) 12,000

 

Vanguard Inflation Protected(VIPSX) 5,000

_______

 

Oct. 1, 2005 - TOTAL $50,000

 

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Hi ..........Here are the benchmarks, and portfolios submitted to date. I gues Dan that you need to pick the amounts that you wish in each fund to total $50,000 and make it official. Hawkwin, do you wish to pick one of the portfolios to manage, and see how it will do versus the others over 5 years? I know that FT, and I'm sure other are interested in posting their portfolios.

Please post in advance of October 1st so we can post the portfolios on Morningstar, hopefully together in one place.

Benchmarks:

DGA Global Equity Fund(DGEIX)...........................$50,000

Fidelity Spartan Total Market Index(FSTMX)..........$50,000

 

Dan Robinson.........here are my 5 (subject to change since the deadline is Oct. 1): Dodge and Cox Stock, Balanced, International, Vanguard Primecap Core, and Vanguard Emerging Markets..This little investement will blow everybody out of the water.

---------------------------------------------------------

Hawkwin

 

I am game. I am a FA and my wife has a 403B as well through her school.

 

For those needing growth, I often use what is called the Founding Funds Strategy with Franklin Templeton.

 

34% Templeton Growth TEPLX

33% Franklin Income Fund FKINX

33% Mutual Shares Fund TESIX

 

(all part of the Franklin Templeton Family of Funds)

 

At 50K, the front load on A shares would be:

 

17K of TEPLX @ 4.5% = $765

16.5K of FKINX @ 4.25% = $701.25

16.5K of TESIX @ 4.5% = $742.50

 

Total sales charge of $2208.75

 

$16235 invested in TEPLX

$15789.75 invested in FKINX

#15757.50 invested in TESIX

 

 

For those needing income (but for this challenge we will show it with dividends and capital gains reinvested), I often use Income Foundation Strategy by American Funds.

 

34% Capital Income Builder CAIBX

33% The Bond Fund of America ABNDX

33% The Income Fund of America AMECX

 

(all part of American Funds - American Funds also have excellent growth funds)

 

At 50K, the front load on A shares would be:

 

17K of CAIBX @ 3.75% = $637.50

16.5K of ABNDX @ 4.5% = $742.50

16.5K of AMECX @ 4.5% = $742.50

 

Total sales charge of $2122.50

 

$16362.50 invested in CAIBX

$15757.50 invested in ABNDX

$15757.50 invested in AMECX

 

Note: You can reduce the overall sales chages by buying funds with lower sales charges and then exchanging the funds. You can also rebalance the funds back to 34/33/33%, if desired, to offset the effect the the different sales charges have on the percentages.

.........................................................................................................

Scotty

DFA Global Equity Fund - DGEIX

-------------------------------

Ira

Fidelity Spartan Total Market Index (FSTMX) $11,500

 

Fidelity Spartan Ext Market Index (FSEMX) 11,500

 

Vanguard Total Int Stk Market Index(VGTSX) 8,000

 

Vanguard REIT Index (VGSIX) 2,000

 

Vanguard Short Term Invest Grade(VFSTX) 12,000

 

Vanguard Inflation Protected(VIPSX) 5,000

_______

 

Oct. 1, 2005 - TOTAL $50,000

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Ira, OK, here we go!

 

 

Dodge and Cox Balanced: DODBX (10%) $5,000

" Stock DODGX (10%) $5,000

" Internat'l DODFX (20%)$10,000

Van. Emerging Markets VEIEX (30%) $15,000

Van. Primecap Core VPCCX (30%)$15,000

 

 

Well, I wish the best of fortunes to all of us, and promise not to crow to loudly, or bring up the fact of the very low fees this portfolio requires, but rather, encourage others to take the actions to learn and not be afraid to invest responsibly (author's message), and have fun...Dan

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Dan, ...........Excellent portfolio...........Since you and I live in the same geographical area, I think that we can make it a little more interesting than playing strictly for honor. .........a side bet of lunch which I will be glad to collect in five years time. I hope that you are willing, and have enough money saved to pay for our lunch......................Ira

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As of this date there are three entries in the contest. Each of these are no load, low cost diversified portfolios that are somewhat similar to each other in many ways, although one has more active management in the portfolio, while another has more fixed income investments, however all will be very effective in gaining maximum returns (submitted by the "do it your selfers").

 

The only "finacial advisor" who submitted anything was Hawkins who suggested various types of advisor oriented portfolios but has not to date presented the one to be managed over the next five years for entry in this contest. Additionally, French Teacher, the only satisfied customer of a "financial advisor" on this site that I know of showed interest in this contest, but has not posted a portfolio. If fact he has not posted lately, and I hope that he is ok.

 

Since I believe that the "financial advisors" to this site will not post portfolios to this contest, since they really know that the vast majority of portfolios that they might submit cannot compare in returns over any prolonged time span to the low cost diversified portfolios that have already been submitted by us "do it yourselfers" who do not have the "vast resources" of these "financial advisors".

 

I've heard a lot of TALK from "financial advisor" on other threads, about how well these load funds do versus the low cost funds, but I guess when it comes down to it, I've found that it was just TALK.

 

I suggest that if there are no other portfolios submitted showing a diversity of investment orientatation before October 1st that this contest be terminated.

 

Ira

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Guest TR1982

Ira,

I might have been mildly interested in this except for the fact that there was no serious benchmarking by asset class in this contest. Having a contest that was supposed to compare fund performance without having equal weights by asset class is like comparing apples and oranges. Also, 5 years is to long. This web site probably won't be here in 5 years. How about 1 year? Or even quarter by quarter? If you're comparing funds in the same asset class, that will make it more interesting.

 

Also, you need more specific ground rules than what you have.

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TR,

 

I think you are missing the point - this isn't a "pick the best fund in a category" contest, it is picking a portfolio, a diversified portfolio (or not - for you tacticals). There are true benchmarks, in fact one of them is a true balanced multi-asset class portfolio (DFA Global Equity). I gotta hope you are trying to be funny when you suggest a contest for one year, that would measure absolutely nothing, five years isn't even long enough.

 

Your ss at the website were childish and show your true nature.

 

ScottyD

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Guest TR1982

Scottyd,

That's what I love I about you! When you can't win an argument on facts, you go ad hominem. If you haven't gotten the message, that's why so few post here. They get really sick of that kind of juvenile behavior.

 

I think it's pretty reasonable to compare a large cap blend fund with a large cap blend fund. I suppose you think that if someone picks an international value fund and over the next 5 years it outperforms the S&P 500 that's a good measure of investment prowess?

 

Where does it say you have to pick a diversified portfolio? What would be defined as diversified? If I pick a portfolio that has a different tactical weight than you, is that a fair comparison?

 

Do you seriously think the same people will be posting here in 5 years, assuming this website is even here? I don't know what planet you live on but it can't be earth.

 

At least if we compare quarter to quarter, we have something to work with. BTW, are you afraid of going at it over less than 5 years? Come on, Scottyd, you're the investment god, I bet you can beat me every day!

 

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I notice that TR, you have decided to post at this thread for the first time, a few days before the contest had been scheduled to start complaining about the benchmarks and the length of time that the contest has to run, whether or not this site will still be here, etc.. This thread, has been here for almost three months, and TR, you did not post even once in order to contribute the develpment of benchmarks used or the time that the contest will be measured as others have done. Now TR, you are attacking as usual, I think in order cover your inability to compete in the contest with high cost loaded funds that your company sells. As usual TR, you have decided to "stirr up the soup" instead of contributing to a positive discussion.

 

Ira

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Guest TR1982

Ira,

 

"The only "finacial advisor" who submitted anything was Hawkins who suggested various types of advisor oriented portfolios but has not to date presented the one to be managed over the next five years for entry in this contest. Additionally, French Teacher, the only satisfied customer of a "financial advisor" on this site that I know of showed interest in this contest, but has not posted a portfolio. If fact he has not posted lately, and I hope that he is ok.

 

Since I believe that the "financial advisors" to this site will not post portfolios to this contest, since they really know that the vast majority of portfolios that they might submit cannot compare in returns over any prolonged time span to the low cost diversified portfolios that have already been submitted by us "do it yourselfers" who do not have the "vast resources" of these "financial advisors".

 

I've heard a lot of TALK from "financial advisor" on other threads, about how well these load funds do versus the low cost funds, but I guess when it comes down to it, I've found that it was just TALK"

 

YOU are the one who was throwing this junk out, not me. I couldn't care less about the contest, I've got nothing to prove to you or Scotty or anybody else here. My proof is the many satisfied clients I have. Don't tell me I was "complaining". I just responded to you why I wasn't interested. IF YOU DON'T WANT TO KNOW, THEN DON'T ASK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Of course you are not submitting a portfolio, since any that you would submit from your company would be high priced and would not be able to compete, and are doing your best to diffuse this inability.

 

By the way, even though you might not think so, I fully expect that this site will be here in five years, and hopefully longer, mainly because it serves a need for those who post asking for information. Much of the information given is to help those who do not know about the shark attacks that occurs in the 403b industry. I doubt if any of your "satisfied customers" know about this web page?

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Guest TR1982

Ira,

Did it ever occur to you that Dan Otter might decide he wants to do something else besides hosting this website? Good grief.

 

BTW, if you want to set up a contest that has similar tactical asset class weightings and evaluate it over time periods that would be of interest to people (I doubt I'll be posting on this site in 5 years), then I might be interested in participating. Any contest that's 5 years out will be forgotten a year from now. Also, what's the point of someone entering a complete index fund into the contest? If everybody were to do that the only issue would be cost, not investment prowess. Should I just say my entry is the S&P 500 index?

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